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Handing on
Feb. 24th, 2008 07:46 pmInteresting to see T Chan blogging about how dead things were last night on FTP and Stars, because IP and Partyy were fairly dire on Friday night and Saturday morning. I was fortunately saved by one guy who could not resist overbetting as soon as the pot reached $20 or so.
Anyhow:
First, the hand posted Friday night, with my comments.
$100 Buy In On IP Network. About 11pm Central European Time
Lucky Fish, few stats. Loooks like 40% VPIP, no preflop raises
Seat 1: TANGjooce ($64.43 in chips)
Seat 2: assodelmontepian ($40.60 in chips)
Seat 4: DerKobold ($104.50 in chips)
Seat 5: Good Bet Sizer($51.95 in chips)
Seat 6: relaxtakeiteasy ($79.80 in chips)
Seat 7: Me($94.50 in chips)
Seat 9: monteluna ($100.00 in chips)
Seat 10: Lucky Fish ($96.05 in chips) DEALER
TANGjooce: Post SB $0.50
assodelmontepian: Post BB $1.00
monteluna: Post SB $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Good Bet Sizer[6♡ 6◊]
Dealt to Lucky Fish [K♣ J♠]
Dealt to TANGjooce [A♡ T♣]
Dealt to Me [9♣ 3♠]
DerKobold: Fold
Good Bet Sizer: Call $1.00
I really don't like these open limps with medium pairs, but I guess that's rather a matter of style. The point is, if you always raise pot if you raise, doesn't just open-limping narrow your range just as much as raising a smaller amount would? However, it's a profitable line for a few other players, so I don't like to criticize it.
relaxtakeiteasy: Call $1.00
Me: Fold
monteluna: Call $0.50
Lucky Fish: Call $1.00
TANGjooce: Allin $0.00
assodelmontepian: Check
$4 in pot, GBS has $52 behind
*** FLOP *** [K♠ 6♠ 4♣]
assodelmontepian: Check
Good Bet Sizer: Bet $4.00
So far, so good, but I think that I would prefer a $5 bet.
relaxtakeiteasy: Fold
monteluna: Call $4.00
Lucky Fish: Call $4.00
assodelmontepian: Fold
$17 in pot
*** TURN *** [Q◊]
Good Bet Sizer: Bet $14.00
Once again, I think I would prefer a slightly larger bet. Indeed, I might put in a fairly lumpy bet (1.25x pot?) because this makes the decision easier on the river and agives opponent lower implied odds. The $14 commits GBS, and the smallness of the bet is only right if he is getting some kind of implied odds from a bluff.
monteluna: Fold
Lucky Fish: Call $14.00
*** RIVER *** [2♠]
Good Bet Sizer: Bet $12.00
Matt's comment: I don't like Sizer's river bet and call allin. The whole point of betting on the turn is to deny flush chasers the right odds. If you're betting and calling allin without a flush then you're giving them the right odds to chase. I would check river and call moderate (1/2 pot) bets.
Aksu's comment: On river GBS has only $33 left. He's not check-folding. He choses a line that extracts value ($12) from weak pairs, but leaves room for fishy allin bluff from missed draws. Game theory stuff out of the window. Don't try this at home.
My comment: Is this a very clever strategy from GBS or is it poor play that got lucky? I'm really not sure. In effect, GBS is betting small enough on flop and turn to apparently give Lucky Fish the implied odds on a missed flush. But suppose GBS thinks that Lucky Fish will bluff all-in half the time that a potential hand hits the river. Then the sizing of GBS's bets might be better EV than making an obviously big bet on the turn where Lucky Fish has no value.
What also has to be considered is that if you make the big bet on the turn, Lucky Fish might call annyway. So, GBS (if this is what he is thinking) must think that Lucky Fish is good enough to fold a bet on the turn that does not offer implied odds, but aggressive enough to try an all-in bluff if he does not have a draw, but the final board looks dangerous to, say, two-pair.
My personal view is that GBS wasn't that good. I think he bet the small amount on the river as a blocking bet, but then called the raise anyway.
Lucky Fish: Allin $77.05
Good Bet Sizer: Allin $20.95
Dealt to Good Bet Sizer[6♡ 6◊]
Dealt to Lucky Fish [K♣ J♠]
Dealt to TANGjooce [A♡ T♣]
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $152.50 Rake $3.00
Good Bet Sizer: wins $108.40
Lucky Fish: wins $44.10
For this hand, Friday night, it was a matter of waiting for the aggressive Lag to hang himself.
Texas Hold'em NL $0.50/$1.00 23-2am Sat Morning Central European
Table Carcassonne
Seat 1: meimei666 ($9.00 in chips)
Seat 2: Nyastara ($110.20 in chips) DEALER
Seat 4: Hero ($110.00 in chips)
Seat 5: 10JORAO10 ($35.30 in chips)
Seat 6: Bingusisback ($198.50 in chips)
Seat 7: zsugass ($161.00 in chips)
Seat 10: LAGGY FISH ($124.15 in chips)
Hero: Post SB $0.50
10JORAO10: Post BB $1.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [K♠ A♣]
Dealt to LAGGY FISH [J♠ 7◊]
Bingusisback: Raise $3.00
zsugass: Call $3.00
LAGGY FISH: Raise $5.00
meimei666: Fold
Nyastara: Fold
Hero: Call $4.50
Deliberate. The aim is to set up LAGGY FISH
10JORAO10: Call $4.00
Bingusisback: Call $2.00
zsugass: Call $2.00
*** FLOP *** [T♠ A♡ A◊]
Let’s hope it all goes according to script.
Hero: Check
10JORAO10: Check
Bingusisback: Check
zsugass: Check
LAGGY FISH: Check
*** TURN *** [9◊]
Hero: Check
Sometimes you just have to be patient.
10JORAO10: Check
Bingusisback: Check
zsugass: Check
LAGGY FISH: Allin $119.15
woohoo
Hero: Allin $105.00
fastest call in history I think.
10JORAO10: Fold
Bingusisback: Fold
zsugass: Fold
*** RIVER *** [2♠]
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $246.15 Rake $3.00
Hero: wins $232.00
LAGGY FISH: wins $14.15
Anyhow:
First, the hand posted Friday night, with my comments.
$100 Buy In On IP Network. About 11pm Central European Time
Lucky Fish, few stats. Loooks like 40% VPIP, no preflop raises
Seat 1: TANGjooce ($64.43 in chips)
Seat 2: assodelmontepian ($40.60 in chips)
Seat 4: DerKobold ($104.50 in chips)
Seat 5: Good Bet Sizer($51.95 in chips)
Seat 6: relaxtakeiteasy ($79.80 in chips)
Seat 7: Me($94.50 in chips)
Seat 9: monteluna ($100.00 in chips)
Seat 10: Lucky Fish ($96.05 in chips) DEALER
TANGjooce: Post SB $0.50
assodelmontepian: Post BB $1.00
monteluna: Post SB $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Good Bet Sizer[6♡ 6◊]
Dealt to Lucky Fish [K♣ J♠]
Dealt to TANGjooce [A♡ T♣]
Dealt to Me [9♣ 3♠]
DerKobold: Fold
Good Bet Sizer: Call $1.00
I really don't like these open limps with medium pairs, but I guess that's rather a matter of style. The point is, if you always raise pot if you raise, doesn't just open-limping narrow your range just as much as raising a smaller amount would? However, it's a profitable line for a few other players, so I don't like to criticize it.
relaxtakeiteasy: Call $1.00
Me: Fold
monteluna: Call $0.50
Lucky Fish: Call $1.00
TANGjooce: Allin $0.00
assodelmontepian: Check
$4 in pot, GBS has $52 behind
*** FLOP *** [K♠ 6♠ 4♣]
assodelmontepian: Check
Good Bet Sizer: Bet $4.00
So far, so good, but I think that I would prefer a $5 bet.
relaxtakeiteasy: Fold
monteluna: Call $4.00
Lucky Fish: Call $4.00
assodelmontepian: Fold
$17 in pot
*** TURN *** [Q◊]
Good Bet Sizer: Bet $14.00
Once again, I think I would prefer a slightly larger bet. Indeed, I might put in a fairly lumpy bet (1.25x pot?) because this makes the decision easier on the river and agives opponent lower implied odds. The $14 commits GBS, and the smallness of the bet is only right if he is getting some kind of implied odds from a bluff.
monteluna: Fold
Lucky Fish: Call $14.00
*** RIVER *** [2♠]
Good Bet Sizer: Bet $12.00
Matt's comment: I don't like Sizer's river bet and call allin. The whole point of betting on the turn is to deny flush chasers the right odds. If you're betting and calling allin without a flush then you're giving them the right odds to chase. I would check river and call moderate (1/2 pot) bets.
Aksu's comment: On river GBS has only $33 left. He's not check-folding. He choses a line that extracts value ($12) from weak pairs, but leaves room for fishy allin bluff from missed draws. Game theory stuff out of the window. Don't try this at home.
My comment: Is this a very clever strategy from GBS or is it poor play that got lucky? I'm really not sure. In effect, GBS is betting small enough on flop and turn to apparently give Lucky Fish the implied odds on a missed flush. But suppose GBS thinks that Lucky Fish will bluff all-in half the time that a potential hand hits the river. Then the sizing of GBS's bets might be better EV than making an obviously big bet on the turn where Lucky Fish has no value.
What also has to be considered is that if you make the big bet on the turn, Lucky Fish might call annyway. So, GBS (if this is what he is thinking) must think that Lucky Fish is good enough to fold a bet on the turn that does not offer implied odds, but aggressive enough to try an all-in bluff if he does not have a draw, but the final board looks dangerous to, say, two-pair.
My personal view is that GBS wasn't that good. I think he bet the small amount on the river as a blocking bet, but then called the raise anyway.
Lucky Fish: Allin $77.05
Good Bet Sizer: Allin $20.95
Dealt to Good Bet Sizer[6♡ 6◊]
Dealt to Lucky Fish [K♣ J♠]
Dealt to TANGjooce [A♡ T♣]
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $152.50 Rake $3.00
Good Bet Sizer: wins $108.40
Lucky Fish: wins $44.10
For this hand, Friday night, it was a matter of waiting for the aggressive Lag to hang himself.
Texas Hold'em NL $0.50/$1.00 23-2am Sat Morning Central European
Table Carcassonne
Seat 1: meimei666 ($9.00 in chips)
Seat 2: Nyastara ($110.20 in chips) DEALER
Seat 4: Hero ($110.00 in chips)
Seat 5: 10JORAO10 ($35.30 in chips)
Seat 6: Bingusisback ($198.50 in chips)
Seat 7: zsugass ($161.00 in chips)
Seat 10: LAGGY FISH ($124.15 in chips)
Hero: Post SB $0.50
10JORAO10: Post BB $1.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [K♠ A♣]
Dealt to LAGGY FISH [J♠ 7◊]
Bingusisback: Raise $3.00
zsugass: Call $3.00
LAGGY FISH: Raise $5.00
meimei666: Fold
Nyastara: Fold
Hero: Call $4.50
Deliberate. The aim is to set up LAGGY FISH
10JORAO10: Call $4.00
Bingusisback: Call $2.00
zsugass: Call $2.00
*** FLOP *** [T♠ A♡ A◊]
Let’s hope it all goes according to script.
Hero: Check
10JORAO10: Check
Bingusisback: Check
zsugass: Check
LAGGY FISH: Check
*** TURN *** [9◊]
Hero: Check
Sometimes you just have to be patient.
10JORAO10: Check
Bingusisback: Check
zsugass: Check
LAGGY FISH: Allin $119.15
woohoo
Hero: Allin $105.00
fastest call in history I think.
10JORAO10: Fold
Bingusisback: Fold
zsugass: Fold
*** RIVER *** [2♠]
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $246.15 Rake $3.00
Hero: wins $232.00
LAGGY FISH: wins $14.15
