Difficult game, this Pot Limit
Sep. 13th, 2005 10:20 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
peterbirksI had an irritating, but thought-provoking, hour or so on Ultimate playing PLO. Initially I thought that it was because I was getting landed with more difficult decisions than usual. Then I realized that everyone else at the table was deep-stacked, which made things more complex than the normal collection of $25 and $15 (plus one or two $100+es). Finally I spotted that I was thinking about stack sizes and the implications for what would happen (or could happen) on the turn. The old “bet the hell out of it and see what happens” Birks had gone by the wayside. Because there were deep stacks everywhere, I had to consider the possibility of pot bets on the turn. If I was out of position (which I invariably was, usually in the Big blind seeing the flop for nothing!) this made things difficult.
The first hand (which I forgot to get the hand history for) was perhaps one where I should have got as much as I could into the pot on the flop.
I picked up AAQ2 rainbow under the gun and limped. Unless I plan to throw the hand away, there isn’t much else I can do here. Five other limpers got to the button who raised to $3. Folded in SB and BB to me. I have $50, raiser has $96. I can reraise to $12 here. Should I do so? I really don’t know. I bottle it and call. All bar one of the limpers folds. Three players and $12 in the pot.
Flop comes QT2 two spades. I have top and bottom. Do I bet $12 here? I really don’t know. I bottle it and check-call a $5 bet from the button. The other player also calls. $27 in pot and I have $42 in front of me. At least I now have a plan. If the turn is a rag, I intend to check-raise the turn. The turn is a six. I check, and the other two players check check behind me, the bastards.
River brings a Jack. I check, Opponent 1 checks and initial raiser bets $15. I fold. My opponent almost certainly has AK here.
I really had no idea where I was at any point at all in this hand, and it still has me puzzled. I think the check-raise plan on the turn is a reasonable enough turn, but at every point prior to that my major worry was that a bet from me left too much in out respective stacks with me out of position. I want to check-raise all-in, but I can’t see how I can manoeuvre it. Against shorter stacks, controlling the tempo of the hand is so much easier.
Here’s another one where I was too hesitant. Although by being so I probably saved myself money. And, I’ll be frank here. I misread my hand on the flop.
(Pot Limit Omaha) Powered by UltimateBet
Spin703 is at seat 0 with $80.10.
rngarfish is at seat 1 with $32.05.
ps709 is at seat 2 with $68.95.
provence is at seat 3 with $49.50.
gpip2342 is at seat 4 with $69.55.
luv2sue is at seat 5 with $59.05.
muzzy009 is at seat 6 with $55.40.
stinky2cc is at seat 7 with $10.
(Button) oneforluck is at seat 8 with $70.35.
Birks is at seat 9 with $54.60.
Birks posts the small blind of $.25.
Spin703 posts the big blind of $.50.
stinky2cc posts out of turn for $.50.
Birks: 5h 2d Qc 2c
Pre-flop:
rngarfish calls. ps709 calls. provence calls. gpip2342 calls. luv2sue calls. muzzy009 calls. stinky2cc checks. oneforluck calls. Birks calls. Spin703 checks.
Flop (board: 2h Qs Qd):
Birks checks. Spin703 checks. rngarfish checks. ps709 checks. provence bets $5. gpip2342 folds. luv2sue folds. muzzy009 folds. stinky2cc folds. oneforluck folds. Birks calls. Spin703 folds. rngarfish folds. ps709 folds.
OK, I’ll admit it. I thought that I had a full house twos full of queens, rather than queens full of twos. If I think the latter, then I will check-raise. I have to assume that my opponent has but nine outs at the most.
Turn (board: 2h Qs Qd Th):
Birks checks. provence bets $6. Birks calls.
Why no check-raise this time? Well, assume opponent has queen. For him to be in the hand at all he is likely to have at least one and probably two of a nine, ten, Jack, King and Ace. His bet in this situation makes it more than 50% that he has a ten, I feel (although less than 67%).
River (board: 2h Qs Qd Th 3c):
Birks checks. provence bets $7. Birks calls.
Same problem applies
Showdown:
provence shows Td 8c Qh Jc.
provence has Td Qh Qs Qd Th: full house, queens full of tens.
Birks mucks cards.
(Birks has 5h 2d Qc 2c.)
provence wins $38.95 with full house, queens full of tens.
Once again, I really have no idea what the spot-on play is at any point in this hand, apart from the fact that I should bash it in on the flop. As it happens, opponent calls, hits his boat on the turn and I (presumably) lay down to his bet on the turn. Or. maybe I don’t.
++++
Now look how much easier it is against short stacks
(Pot Limit Omaha)
Powered by UltimateBet
Spin703 is at seat 0 with $73.85.
SneakyMF7 is at seat 1 with $13.50.
specards is at seat 2 with $24.50.
provence is at seat 3 with $75.25.
gpip2342 is at seat 4 with $93.80.
(Button) ntrop is at seat 5 with $11.80.
muzzy009 is at seat 6 with $86.35 (sitting out).
Flexi Digit is at seat 7 with $30.95.
Birks is at seat 9 with $44.95.
The button is at seat 5.
Flexi Digit posts the small blind of $.25.
Birks posts the big blind of $.50.
Birks: 8s 8h 9h Th
Pre-flop:
Spin703 folds. SneakyMF7 raises to $1. specards folds. provence folds. gpip2342 folds. ntrop calls. Flexi Digit calls. Birks calls.
I’m quite happy to call a mini-raise (which, as we now know, is a tell for Aces!) with this hand
Flop (board: 9s 3h Ts):
Flexi Digit bets $.50. Birks raises to $5.50. SneakyMF7 calls. ntrop folds. Flexi Digit folds.
Turn (board: 9s 3h Ts 4c):
Birks bets $15.50. SneakyMF7 goes all-in for $7. Birks is returned $8.50 (uncalled).
River (board: 9s 3h Ts 4c 2c):
(no action in this round)
Showdown:
Birks shows 8s 8h 9h Th.
Birks has 9h Th 9s Ts 4c: two pair, tens and nines.
SneakyMF7 shows Ac Ad 9d Qs.
SneakyMF7 has Ac Ad 9s Ts 4c: a pair of aces.
$1.45 is raked from a pot of $29.50.
Birks wins $28.05 with two pair, tens and nines.
Simplicity itself with cards that might as well have been face-up
+++++
And here’s another one
(Pot Limit Omaha)
Powered by UltimateBet
(Button) aschlanser1 is at seat 1 with $54.75.
specards is at seat 2 with $20.70.
suusc24 is at seat 3 with $21.95.
yanksck is at seat 4 with $21.50.
iamjah is at seat 5 with $29.55.
Flexi Digit is at seat 7 with $34.55.
YC_23 is at seat 8 with $30.55.
Birks is at seat 9 with $50.
The button is at seat 1.
specards posts the small blind of $.25.
suusc24 posts the big blind of $.50.
Birks: 4c 3h 5s 8c
Pre-flop:
yanksck folds. iamjah folds. Flexi Digit folds. YC_23 raises to $1. Birks calls. aschlanser1 folds. specards calls. suusc24 calls.
Flop (board: Ah 7c 2h):
specards checks. suusc24 checks. YC_23 bets $4. Birks calls. specards folds. suusc24 folds.
This is a speculative call at best in that I only really have six outs. I’m playing to either hit and get out or hit and pray for a cheap (or, preferably, free) river. If opponent is betting on a flush draw, I might get it.
Turn (board: Ah 7c 2h 5c):
Nice one
YC_23 bets $12. Birks goes all-in for $45. YC_23 goes all-in for $25.55. Birks is returned $19.45 (uncalled).
Even nicer. God knows what possessed this bet, but it’s an example of how those calls that look dodgy can have enormous implied odds at this level .
River (board: Ah 7c 2h 5c Jc):
Showdown:
Birks shows 4c 3h 5s 8c.
Birks has 4c 8c 7c 5c Jc: flush, jack high.
YC_23 shows 7h Js As Ks.
YC_23 has Js As Ah 7c Jc: two pair, aces and jacks.
Birks wins $60.10 with flush, jack high.
So, what I want to know is, if this game is so easy to beat, how come I lost $20 on the session?
The first hand (which I forgot to get the hand history for) was perhaps one where I should have got as much as I could into the pot on the flop.
I picked up AAQ2 rainbow under the gun and limped. Unless I plan to throw the hand away, there isn’t much else I can do here. Five other limpers got to the button who raised to $3. Folded in SB and BB to me. I have $50, raiser has $96. I can reraise to $12 here. Should I do so? I really don’t know. I bottle it and call. All bar one of the limpers folds. Three players and $12 in the pot.
Flop comes QT2 two spades. I have top and bottom. Do I bet $12 here? I really don’t know. I bottle it and check-call a $5 bet from the button. The other player also calls. $27 in pot and I have $42 in front of me. At least I now have a plan. If the turn is a rag, I intend to check-raise the turn. The turn is a six. I check, and the other two players check check behind me, the bastards.
River brings a Jack. I check, Opponent 1 checks and initial raiser bets $15. I fold. My opponent almost certainly has AK here.
I really had no idea where I was at any point at all in this hand, and it still has me puzzled. I think the check-raise plan on the turn is a reasonable enough turn, but at every point prior to that my major worry was that a bet from me left too much in out respective stacks with me out of position. I want to check-raise all-in, but I can’t see how I can manoeuvre it. Against shorter stacks, controlling the tempo of the hand is so much easier.
Here’s another one where I was too hesitant. Although by being so I probably saved myself money. And, I’ll be frank here. I misread my hand on the flop.
(Pot Limit Omaha) Powered by UltimateBet
Spin703 is at seat 0 with $80.10.
rngarfish is at seat 1 with $32.05.
ps709 is at seat 2 with $68.95.
provence is at seat 3 with $49.50.
gpip2342 is at seat 4 with $69.55.
luv2sue is at seat 5 with $59.05.
muzzy009 is at seat 6 with $55.40.
stinky2cc is at seat 7 with $10.
(Button) oneforluck is at seat 8 with $70.35.
Birks is at seat 9 with $54.60.
Birks posts the small blind of $.25.
Spin703 posts the big blind of $.50.
stinky2cc posts out of turn for $.50.
Birks: 5h 2d Qc 2c
Pre-flop:
rngarfish calls. ps709 calls. provence calls. gpip2342 calls. luv2sue calls. muzzy009 calls. stinky2cc checks. oneforluck calls. Birks calls. Spin703 checks.
Flop (board: 2h Qs Qd):
Birks checks. Spin703 checks. rngarfish checks. ps709 checks. provence bets $5. gpip2342 folds. luv2sue folds. muzzy009 folds. stinky2cc folds. oneforluck folds. Birks calls. Spin703 folds. rngarfish folds. ps709 folds.
OK, I’ll admit it. I thought that I had a full house twos full of queens, rather than queens full of twos. If I think the latter, then I will check-raise. I have to assume that my opponent has but nine outs at the most.
Turn (board: 2h Qs Qd Th):
Birks checks. provence bets $6. Birks calls.
Why no check-raise this time? Well, assume opponent has queen. For him to be in the hand at all he is likely to have at least one and probably two of a nine, ten, Jack, King and Ace. His bet in this situation makes it more than 50% that he has a ten, I feel (although less than 67%).
River (board: 2h Qs Qd Th 3c):
Birks checks. provence bets $7. Birks calls.
Same problem applies
Showdown:
provence shows Td 8c Qh Jc.
provence has Td Qh Qs Qd Th: full house, queens full of tens.
Birks mucks cards.
(Birks has 5h 2d Qc 2c.)
provence wins $38.95 with full house, queens full of tens.
Once again, I really have no idea what the spot-on play is at any point in this hand, apart from the fact that I should bash it in on the flop. As it happens, opponent calls, hits his boat on the turn and I (presumably) lay down to his bet on the turn. Or. maybe I don’t.
++++
Now look how much easier it is against short stacks
(Pot Limit Omaha)
Powered by UltimateBet
Spin703 is at seat 0 with $73.85.
SneakyMF7 is at seat 1 with $13.50.
specards is at seat 2 with $24.50.
provence is at seat 3 with $75.25.
gpip2342 is at seat 4 with $93.80.
(Button) ntrop is at seat 5 with $11.80.
muzzy009 is at seat 6 with $86.35 (sitting out).
Flexi Digit is at seat 7 with $30.95.
Birks is at seat 9 with $44.95.
The button is at seat 5.
Flexi Digit posts the small blind of $.25.
Birks posts the big blind of $.50.
Birks: 8s 8h 9h Th
Pre-flop:
Spin703 folds. SneakyMF7 raises to $1. specards folds. provence folds. gpip2342 folds. ntrop calls. Flexi Digit calls. Birks calls.
I’m quite happy to call a mini-raise (which, as we now know, is a tell for Aces!) with this hand
Flop (board: 9s 3h Ts):
Flexi Digit bets $.50. Birks raises to $5.50. SneakyMF7 calls. ntrop folds. Flexi Digit folds.
Turn (board: 9s 3h Ts 4c):
Birks bets $15.50. SneakyMF7 goes all-in for $7. Birks is returned $8.50 (uncalled).
River (board: 9s 3h Ts 4c 2c):
(no action in this round)
Showdown:
Birks shows 8s 8h 9h Th.
Birks has 9h Th 9s Ts 4c: two pair, tens and nines.
SneakyMF7 shows Ac Ad 9d Qs.
SneakyMF7 has Ac Ad 9s Ts 4c: a pair of aces.
$1.45 is raked from a pot of $29.50.
Birks wins $28.05 with two pair, tens and nines.
Simplicity itself with cards that might as well have been face-up
+++++
And here’s another one
(Pot Limit Omaha)
Powered by UltimateBet
(Button) aschlanser1 is at seat 1 with $54.75.
specards is at seat 2 with $20.70.
suusc24 is at seat 3 with $21.95.
yanksck is at seat 4 with $21.50.
iamjah is at seat 5 with $29.55.
Flexi Digit is at seat 7 with $34.55.
YC_23 is at seat 8 with $30.55.
Birks is at seat 9 with $50.
The button is at seat 1.
specards posts the small blind of $.25.
suusc24 posts the big blind of $.50.
Birks: 4c 3h 5s 8c
Pre-flop:
yanksck folds. iamjah folds. Flexi Digit folds. YC_23 raises to $1. Birks calls. aschlanser1 folds. specards calls. suusc24 calls.
Flop (board: Ah 7c 2h):
specards checks. suusc24 checks. YC_23 bets $4. Birks calls. specards folds. suusc24 folds.
This is a speculative call at best in that I only really have six outs. I’m playing to either hit and get out or hit and pray for a cheap (or, preferably, free) river. If opponent is betting on a flush draw, I might get it.
Turn (board: Ah 7c 2h 5c):
Nice one
YC_23 bets $12. Birks goes all-in for $45. YC_23 goes all-in for $25.55. Birks is returned $19.45 (uncalled).
Even nicer. God knows what possessed this bet, but it’s an example of how those calls that look dodgy can have enormous implied odds at this level .
River (board: Ah 7c 2h 5c Jc):
Showdown:
Birks shows 4c 3h 5s 8c.
Birks has 4c 8c 7c 5c Jc: flush, jack high.
YC_23 shows 7h Js As Ks.
YC_23 has Js As Ah 7c Jc: two pair, aces and jacks.
Birks wins $60.10 with flush, jack high.
So, what I want to know is, if this game is so easy to beat, how come I lost $20 on the session?
