Neteller Paradise

[peterbirks]

So, the FBI has seized my money, money won in non-US-based sites, by a non-US player, in transit from a non-US company to Charles Schwab (a US financial services company). Neteller said this morning that cash "in transit" had been seized by the US authorities. Presumably this includes my $2,500 on the way to my Schwab account, along with $54,997,500 of other people's money. Is this legal? Who cares? In this world, legal is based on how big you are, and the US authorities know this. Is it moral? Well, I'll leave that in your court, but I know how I feel.


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Other news is that Paradise Poker has given up the ghost. The brand is staying, but it is going to become a skin for Boss Media, that Scandinavian shithole that we all know and love from Virgin. The home of deliberate all-ins, the slowest software in christendom, no four-dolour deck option and the only site where I have been convinced that collusion is a serious problem rather than an occasional one (the software is so slow, I think that collulders could communicate by letter in some cases).

Despite being a shareholder in SportingBet and feeling that this is going to be good for the share price, I don't see it getting me back into the Paradise fold on the grounds of 'more liquidity'.

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It's off to the dentist this afternoon and back this evening with, hopefully, two fewer teeth than I set out with. If I'm grumpy tonight, it's because the local anaesthetic is wearing off.

And I'm currently getting shat on by donkeys on UB. Fun times.

Comments

[countingmyouts.livejournal.com]

Hi, Peter:

Perhaps the question should be, when will someone ball up their fist and fight back? This is all so ludicrous.

Michael

[(Anonymous)]

How much was Paradise bought for now? That probably feels like a big oops.

gl

bdd

[peterbirks.livejournal.com]

£55m write off, but SportingBet paid a lot more than that, didn't it? £150m?

A big oops indeed, as many of us said at the time.

The farce here is that it is often termed a "non-cash" write-off, because all you are doing is writing down goodwill. But in reality it means (it's real money, but we've already spent it, rather than having to spend it tomorrow". The money, which belonged to shareholders when the purchase was made, is still gone.

PJ

[mrwarfrog.livejournal.com]

"if I am grumpy TONIGHT"?

Whats the excuse the rest of the time? Christ, if you were only grumpy when you had teeth removed then you would have had dentures years ago!

An interesting situation

[slowjoe.livejournal.com]

Pete,

Sucks that your money got grabbed.

Have you been formally told about this by either Schwab or Neteller? At the very least, you should ask for a receipt from the FBI.

You find yourself in an interesting situation, since you are the ultimate "innocent bystander". Your funds certainly aren't an exhibit in any case regarding a breach of UIGEA (unless you played online from Vegas.) Practically no-one else would make as good a test case.

It would be rather funny if you could issue a small claims court claim here against the US embassy, then send in the bailiffs!

On the other hand, it might be reckless if you intend to travel to the US in the near future, since Uncle Sam isn't known for his sense of humour.

Re: An interesting situation

[peterbirks.livejournal.com]

Schwab are probably completely unaware that the money has been seized in transit to the account, although I might put in a quiet enquiry to see how I stand. Perhaps I should also mention here that my Schwab account is an "International" dollar-denominated account, although the banking services are provided by PNC Bank, which is a Delaware corporation.

It would be interesting to know if Schwab would still be willing to accept the Neteller transfers from non-US residents.

Neteller have't informed me formally, which I think is a bit off, but I can understand that they are under a lot of pressure. I suspect that there are only about a dozen of us in this rather unusual situation (UK residents, US accounts, rather than UK-based dollar-denominated accounts) and I might be the only one of these whose funds have been sequestered.

The actual seizers, I should point out, appear to be the attorney-general's office of some state (South Carolina?), rather than the Feds. This makes things a state rather than a federal matter. I might look into the actual nature of the legal proceedings a bit closer today.

The main point here is that Neteller is (understandably) co-operating with the forensic accounting (it's actually paying for it!). Any communications between me and the interested parties are likely to run along the lines of "your funds are safe and will be released when the investigations are concluded". Or, in other words, shit happens.

I'm prepared to live with this rather than rock the boat. My money isn't at threat and it's just a bit of bad luck. The cash itself isn't really needed at the moment and the foregone interest is unlikey to amount to more than $100.

From the shit-stirring viewpoint, yes, it would be interesting. I suspect that even the national press would like this one. "Innocent Brit sees thousands seized by US authorities", although they would, without doubt, get nearly all the pertinent facts wrong.

But well, let's face it. I'm a grown-up. These are gambling winnings, and it is a US account. Suppose I was a cunning fox who had seen what was going on, and I had set up a UK address as a "front"?

All I have to wait for is Neteller to show that I am a UK resident and UK passport holder and for Schwab to confirm this if and when they are asked. Once that happens, the money should transfer without any problem. However, luckily, I don't need to hold my breath waiting for it to happen.

PJ