Second Class Post
Mar. 3rd, 2007 02:23 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
peterbirksMost of the blogs I read have headed off into the distance, as far as I can tell. So I guess it's nice to see that Ignatious O'Reilly (http://guinnessandpoker.blogspot.com) is back, having worked out that he could make more money posting on his own blog and pimping Party Poker, Full Tilt and PokerStars than he could from the people at Pokerworks when they were hosting his posts. And, of course, there is more editorial freedom.
Also quite interesting, at the moment, is www.pokerverdict.com. where Hugo Martin not only gains kudos for a mention of Charles Bukowski, but also links to paperonpoker, who gives a fine tale of Mr Chu of the Vic. I remember Mr Chu from the early 1990s (and quite possibly the late 1970s) and the stud tables. After the stud died out apparently he spent some months watching the Hold 'em tables before stepping back in. And there he remains.
Richard Brodie's "Lion Tales" seem to have headed off into a surrealistic land, a fraction reminiscent of aforementioned Bukowski. How much is real, how much is fiction? And what had brought about this distinct change in the Brodie oeuvre? A mid-life crisis? Anyway, tales from Reno (where he is at the moment) are, well, weird. www.brodietech.com/liontales/blog.htm
The latest www.pokerati.com has a link to a superb tuff fish compilation - better even than watching tuff fish actually play. For those of you unaware of tuff fish, he's actually recorded some of his adventures on YouTube. The problem is that Tuff sometimes tends to "lose it" at short-handed NL tables, very much not having the patience of a saint.
www.sirfwalgman.blogspot.com is a bit of a lovefest for other bloggers and doesn't seem to post much of interest to those outside the circle. A bit like attending a party where it seems as if everyone knows everyone else. However, he has attempted to video some play online. I've often thought about managing something like this, but the effort involved always makes me reconsider. However, playing that single uploaded hand gives you an insight into how sirfwalgman, and a large number of people, play.
Negative EV at foolandhismoney.blogspot.com did a brief post in December about his win in the bloggers tourney in LV, but there has been nothing since. I found Kevin's card in my desk drawer at work the other week, but now I've probably lost it again (we met at the limit Bellagio 8-16 tables in 2005).
Dutifully pluoghing through the blogs listed by Iggy (and there are a lot) I came to the conclusion that, for me, most of them are a little like going to Gutshot to play poker live. You know that much of the conversation will revolve around football, TV, drinking and sex. This is bad enough at the Gutshot, but when the bloggers are talking about American football, American TV, and American drinking, then this poor reader, at least, feels even more left out. There is little in most of them to grab any purchase. And what poker there is usually related to low-stakes MTTs.
The problem is, low-stakes MTTs are what most players are interested in. And, yes, most of them quite clearly suck, so low-stakes MTTs are almost certainly the best way for them to spend any time playing poker, because they get a lot of entertainment for not much money.
One common thread to many of these bloggers' posts is how so many of them end upo going out "very near" the money, and their complate lack of appreciation of the cause. Of all the blogs I read, not one seemed to spot that their strategy of "sensible" play early on was leading to the desperation situation as the blinds went up.
And the complaint is usally along the lines of "I went out with AK vs 74s", rather than "I went out with 2,000 chips when the blinds were 300-600, and my opponent had 50,000 chips".
Law School Dropout (zbasic.com/pokerblog.html) has called it a day with his blog, and possibly with online poker, although he is planning on playing in the WSOP.
From jmcautomatic.blogspot.com we have "thanks for the fun. I quit". Ah well, at least he made the final post. Most of the blogs simply fade into silence.
++++
Party had a $100 deposit bonus but upped the required number of raked hands in a week to 1,000. At $2-$4 these days that can be anywhere between 2,200 and 2,800 hands played, and I really didn't feel like it. Then I played some $1-$2, because the average pot size was almost as large as that of the $2-$4 games (see the influence that these bots are having?). After 200 hands of this I looked at my bonus balance and saw that I had knocked off about 180 points. Wow, way to go, I thought. Clearly even the 25c rake at $5 (not imposed at the $2-$4 level) counted as a "raked hand".
So, that was it, I was off. Having played 1,000 games at $2-$4 to generate 350 points (mainly two-tabling), a mere three or four hours of three-tabling at $1-$2 cleared the bonus. Oh, and the quality of play was a lot worse too. Indeed it was at about the $2-$4 level of a couple of years ago. Except that, now, given current standards, it seemed much worse. The bonus generated when three-tabling was about $18 an hour, which is higher than I have seen anywhere for quite a while.
Also quite interesting, at the moment, is www.pokerverdict.com. where Hugo Martin not only gains kudos for a mention of Charles Bukowski, but also links to paperonpoker, who gives a fine tale of Mr Chu of the Vic. I remember Mr Chu from the early 1990s (and quite possibly the late 1970s) and the stud tables. After the stud died out apparently he spent some months watching the Hold 'em tables before stepping back in. And there he remains.
Richard Brodie's "Lion Tales" seem to have headed off into a surrealistic land, a fraction reminiscent of aforementioned Bukowski. How much is real, how much is fiction? And what had brought about this distinct change in the Brodie oeuvre? A mid-life crisis? Anyway, tales from Reno (where he is at the moment) are, well, weird. www.brodietech.com/liontales/blog.htm
The latest www.pokerati.com has a link to a superb tuff fish compilation - better even than watching tuff fish actually play. For those of you unaware of tuff fish, he's actually recorded some of his adventures on YouTube. The problem is that Tuff sometimes tends to "lose it" at short-handed NL tables, very much not having the patience of a saint.
www.sirfwalgman.blogspot.com is a bit of a lovefest for other bloggers and doesn't seem to post much of interest to those outside the circle. A bit like attending a party where it seems as if everyone knows everyone else. However, he has attempted to video some play online. I've often thought about managing something like this, but the effort involved always makes me reconsider. However, playing that single uploaded hand gives you an insight into how sirfwalgman, and a large number of people, play.
Negative EV at foolandhismoney.blogspot.com did a brief post in December about his win in the bloggers tourney in LV, but there has been nothing since. I found Kevin's card in my desk drawer at work the other week, but now I've probably lost it again (we met at the limit Bellagio 8-16 tables in 2005).
Dutifully pluoghing through the blogs listed by Iggy (and there are a lot) I came to the conclusion that, for me, most of them are a little like going to Gutshot to play poker live. You know that much of the conversation will revolve around football, TV, drinking and sex. This is bad enough at the Gutshot, but when the bloggers are talking about American football, American TV, and American drinking, then this poor reader, at least, feels even more left out. There is little in most of them to grab any purchase. And what poker there is usually related to low-stakes MTTs.
The problem is, low-stakes MTTs are what most players are interested in. And, yes, most of them quite clearly suck, so low-stakes MTTs are almost certainly the best way for them to spend any time playing poker, because they get a lot of entertainment for not much money.
One common thread to many of these bloggers' posts is how so many of them end upo going out "very near" the money, and their complate lack of appreciation of the cause. Of all the blogs I read, not one seemed to spot that their strategy of "sensible" play early on was leading to the desperation situation as the blinds went up.
And the complaint is usally along the lines of "I went out with AK vs 74s", rather than "I went out with 2,000 chips when the blinds were 300-600, and my opponent had 50,000 chips".
Law School Dropout (zbasic.com/pokerblog.html) has called it a day with his blog, and possibly with online poker, although he is planning on playing in the WSOP.
From jmcautomatic.blogspot.com we have "thanks for the fun. I quit". Ah well, at least he made the final post. Most of the blogs simply fade into silence.
++++
Party had a $100 deposit bonus but upped the required number of raked hands in a week to 1,000. At $2-$4 these days that can be anywhere between 2,200 and 2,800 hands played, and I really didn't feel like it. Then I played some $1-$2, because the average pot size was almost as large as that of the $2-$4 games (see the influence that these bots are having?). After 200 hands of this I looked at my bonus balance and saw that I had knocked off about 180 points. Wow, way to go, I thought. Clearly even the 25c rake at $5 (not imposed at the $2-$4 level) counted as a "raked hand".
So, that was it, I was off. Having played 1,000 games at $2-$4 to generate 350 points (mainly two-tabling), a mere three or four hours of three-tabling at $1-$2 cleared the bonus. Oh, and the quality of play was a lot worse too. Indeed it was at about the $2-$4 level of a couple of years ago. Except that, now, given current standards, it seemed much worse. The bonus generated when three-tabling was about $18 an hour, which is higher than I have seen anywhere for quite a while.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
Blogs
Date: 2007-03-03 06:56 pm (UTC)I bookmark various poker blogs over time and also check the ones linked to on other blogs as you do. It really is a wasteland out there with not much serious strategy/theory discussion, and mainly just a rehash of how good/bad someone is running. And our friend Big Dave hasn't updated his blog in a couple months+ now that he is a big time famous writer for CPEuro :).
Part of it no doubt is that with all the discussion past and present on 2+2 and in blogs in the past, there really isn't too much new to talk about, and for those that could talk about something new, they often don't want to share. Of course no doubt we are missing out on premo O8 discussion on Ribbut's private part of his blog that he only shares with "friends", but I think we'll manage to get by nonetheless.
BluffTHIS!
Re: Blogs
Date: 2007-03-04 12:06 am (UTC)Yes, a lack of something new to say might be a factor. And, let's face it, most people are great ones for fads; and, for many people, both the blogging part and the poker part are fads, before they move on to something else.
But another factor is also the sad fact that those of us who do have things that we could say, no longer want to do so, because why should other people get things for free that cost us many hours to earn? I stopped writing stuff for the Stan James network mainly because I figured that writing anything useful would probably be negative EV for me.
Part of the "useful" part is also that it takes you a lot of time to do and, as DY observed, no-one ever thanks you for it.
I would say that the only piece of published work from which I have learned anything that's definitely of use is The Mathematics of Poker, and even that has been something which I've kind of figured out for myself, translating material written about no limit to limit.
PJ
Blogs
Date: 2007-03-03 07:54 pm (UTC)I too have found that since the UGIEA a number have stopped blogging, and the general quality of posts are quite often self indulgent. I was first put onto your blog by Michael at counting my outs. I thank him sincerely as your blog is now first read. Is it not interesting that quite a few of the proper blogs are by limit players. As a no limit donkey (deposit.. come home from pub..believe I am a poker God... drop £20 ..repeat next week) a number of limit players feel scared? out of their depth at small stakes no limit.Advice given by some of the nl donkeys to start playing more nl is based on the fact that we read your's and others posts and realise that at small stakes nl you lot would kill us. Play some $25 buy in no limit.I am sure once you realise that people will go all in with 82o on the river you will do well. However I am still looking for good blogs with a bit of strategy occasionally on nl cash and tourneys. Noted poker authority and sng machine seem to deliver not many others.
Finally after a bit of a ramble, with a nod to Mr Birks
music Curtis Mayfield - Super Fly - on vinyl (sounds sooooo much better)
take it easy
Ben
Liverpool
Re: Blogs
Date: 2007-03-04 12:12 am (UTC)Thanks for the kind words. I agree with you; limit players seem to produce blog entries more frequently and often have more interesting things to say. Although why this should be, I don't know.
No limit is a very different game to limit. Whether it takes longer to master the nuances of limit or of no limit at a similar level of bankroll risk (at $2--$4 I would estimate my average bankroll risk once every two years to be in the region of $600 to $800) is a matter for debate. But much of winning ability in limit is based on experience. If the same thing applied to no limit, then it would take me many years to have the same level of knowledge of the habits of certain players at certain levels.
I suspect that "ABC" no limit is somewhat easier to play at low levels than "ABC" limit at similar levels of bankroll risk. But I think that once you move up in stakes, the subtleties become such that you need to clock in a large number of table hours before you can even approach the level that you achieved at the "other" game.
I'm not saying I wouldn't do it. I've at lest got the advantage of many years' pot limit experience (pre 1999) to work with. And you'd be surprised how much of limit CAN be transferred over to No Limit. The trick s knowing which bits to keep and which bits to disgard!
PJ
Re: Blogs
Date: 2007-03-04 01:14 am (UTC)Hello Peter
"And you'd be surprised how much of limit CAN be transferred over to No Limit."
That is what I am trying to say.Experienced limit players can nail a low limit nl game like $25 nl buy in.
For godsakes,I'm tempted to stake you and learn from your posts or split the profits.
later
Ben
Re: Blogs
Date: 2007-03-04 01:45 am (UTC)Whether it takes longer to master the nuances of limit or of no limit at a similar level of bankroll risk (at $2--$4 I would estimate my average bankroll risk once every two years to be in the region of $600 to $800) is a matter for debate. But much of winning ability in limit is based on experience. If the same thing applied to no limit, then it would take me many years to have the same level of knowledge of the habits of certain players at certain levels.
I think you would be surprised.I also think if you tried the $25 nl buy in games available, you would win more than the limit games.Go on I challenge you. I've noted on a couple of blogs limit players trying different games be it nl or sng's and caning the opposition. You have a better understanding of the odds, just back them
Ben
Liverpool
Re: Blogs
Date: 2007-03-04 10:40 am (UTC)If I only played limit at these times I would probably be averaging 3BB per 100 per table heaven.
But I don't. I play at 4pm on Thursday afternoon, or 8pm on Tuesday evening. I play mid-month, when many of the social players are absent, because they are waiting for their salary cheques to go in. If you check out the No Limit games at this time, even the $25 and $50 buy-ins, I think that you might be surprised at the timbre of the games. These are not "fun times". There is money to be won, but it isn't won from all-ins with sets on the flop. More likely it's won through techniques such as "build it up, and then take it without a showdown".
These techniques require focus and knowledge of particular opponents (as well as the general style of the level and the site). Most important is the question "how much does this bet mean to them?" A $5 bet into a $3 pot might be seen by one opponent as "just five dollars", by another as 160% of the pot, and by yet another as far too large a bet to be called with anything but the nuts.
Now, if I put that $5 bet in, I want to know what type of opponent I am facing before I decide to do it. I don't want to put that bet in on a wing and a prayer. You can add one nought or two noughts to the end of both figures. It makes no difference to the need to know what your opponent is thinking.
I've puttered about in the strange land of NL on Bugsy's, when I've had a little time to spare. But I still think of it as a diversion. I haven't found it to be a donate-fest, to be honest. Most of my money has been won through "proper" pre-flop raises, from position, and decent-sized continuations. But even at this level I can't play more than one table at a time, because the level of each opponent's stack is so important.
PJ
Re: Blogs
Date: 2007-03-04 03:52 pm (UTC)Hi, Peter:
I suspect that it has a lot to do with the fact that limit (and also probably cash ring game players of other forms, like NL, PL, Stud) players as a whole are more dedicated to their craft than tournament players. Winning and losing of the long haul depends on more subtle concepts and the importance of winning or saving a bet here and there, so these players are more likely to study the game more in depth than a tourney player would.
I also agree with your comments about the overall poker blogosphere. There are very few worth a read these days and I suspect that this trend will continue to worsen as the days pass.
Michael
Post
Date: 2007-03-04 02:59 pm (UTC)Re: Post
Date: 2007-03-05 08:54 am (UTC)On the plus side, you got mentioned. A good four-fifths of those accessed were immediately dismissed as 'pointless'. And, for a blog, it does what it says on the tin. There's nothing wrong with a blog being for a circle of friends that doesn't bother to explain things to outsiders. That, to use a hip phrase that was once fashionable, went out of fashion and then came back in again, is what 'narrowcasting' is all about. And, as that kind of blog, it's very good.
However, that can mean that the general tone of the blog makes it of less interest to 'outsiders'. Nothing wrong with that, but for readers looking for topics of interest to the wider world, it might not be the best place to start.
PJ
Re: Post
Date: 2007-03-06 04:15 pm (UTC)Yeah. My point is, sure there is a lot of crap out there (SirFWalGman included), but sometimes, even crap can be entertaining, if not to you than to someone else. I mean, it's a blog, not a written tome.
no subject
Date: 2007-03-06 01:54 pm (UTC)I know I rarely blog about poker anymore despite hitting the PLO8 tables nitely.
blog death
Date: 2007-03-06 02:22 pm (UTC)Re: blog death
Date: 2007-03-06 10:08 pm (UTC)As such, I guess I resent people who come into things for a while, act all enthusiastic (far more so than grumpy old git Birks) for six months or 12 months or a couple of years even, and then "move on". I'm happy to admit that this is a flaw in me rather than them. "Moving on" makes more sense than just sticking where you are. This is a flaw in me, based on complex psychological issues that I'm sure people can guess, so I don't need to go into them.
So, while for drizz, the game was "fresh and new", the problem was that for me it was already more than 30 years old. I retain (roughly) the same amount of enthusiasm for it as I did in 1980, 1990, and in 2000, while all around me has been this "bloom" and subsequent withering.
Sometimes I feel like an Ent, with my time moving at a different pace from the rest of the world :-)
PJ
Re: blog death
Date: 2007-03-07 02:12 pm (UTC)Writing about the same suckouts, brags, and whatnot... not so much.
TiNEhTpNlFaVnA
Date: 2008-04-30 10:25 pm (UTC)unlock iphone 4p
Date: 2011-06-18 11:32 pm (UTC)unlock iphone
unlock iphone (http://ounlockiphone.com) unlock iphone iphone unlock
iphone unlock
unlock iphone iphone unlock [url=http://ounlockiphone.com]unlock iphone [/url] unlock iphone
english composition essay
Date: 2011-10-21 03:38 am (UTC)