Power of Language

[peterbirks]

Turkey-watchers will have been fascinated to see the state-run TV channel cutting a live broadcast from Parliament because an MP started speaking in Kurdish. This, you might recall, is a country that wants to join the EU. You have to wonder whether any country that lacks the confidence in the stability of its own nation to such a degree that it bars the use of a minority language in parliament, is ready to join the EU. Turkey banned the speaking of Kurdish at all until 1991. Its attitude to the language is still on a par with that of English to Welsh and French to Breton more than 100 years ago.

Anyone who thinks that language does not have power only has to look at the reaction to a short speech in an ethnic minority language to see that it is a potent force indeed. Sometimes the pen can be mightier than the sword.

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Comments

[real-aardvark.livejournal.com]

I am reminded of Harold Pinter ... although I do not wish to be reminded of Harold Pinter.

(That ellipsis was a Beckettian pause of precisely four seconds. Not a Pinter pause at all ... oh, no. Twice ... thrice, no.)

Actually, I think the world would be much improved by a "Learn a Silly Language" day. Basque, say, or one of those Aboriginal languages made up on the spot to confound a visiting ethnologist, or to give a relative five extra points on an Australian visa application. "Fair dinkum, mate; there's only three native speakers of Jugawarra-Jugawarrawarra left, and, since I've got multiple personality disorder, you're speaking to two of them. The other one is my imaginary friend from the dream time, Harold Crunge in Croydon. What? He's not imaginary? I'm going to ask Spike Milligan for my money back."

Be honest. It's a far more amusing way to spend your time than Red Nose Day.

None of which applies to Kurdish, of course. If I ever get an independent existence, I vow to spend some time looking into Kurdish culture, language, and history.

Do they, too, have Oxford commas, I wonder?

Comme à?

[peterbirks.livejournal.com]

I am one of the great proponents and defenders of the Oxford comma at work, although my knowledge of the principle is shaky at best. It's more a case of "hmm, it looks right here".

The comma performs two functions when I write -- one is to make the sentence logically sound and unambiguous, while the other is to indicate to the reader when to pause slightly if reading aloud. This conflation of two functions (which applies to most punctuation marks) is what causes people such difficulties with the darned thing.


PJ

Re: Comme à?

[real-aardvark.livejournal.com]

We'll exercise your facility in cross-linguistic puns later, young Birks.

In re commas in general, your second para is spot-on, as I would expect. I invite you to consider the exact same two functions in German, as an exercise in linguistics. Interestingly, the German case ("ich will, dass...") puts the stress on disambiguity. The English case ("Well, yes, but no, but yes, but noooo, but yes") puts the stress on reading aloud. (Which, at some deep level, we all do in our head anyway. I'm not gonna go there.)

The Oxford comma rule is simple. Indeed, it is so simple that I spent three years at Oxford without ever hearing of it ... apparently, one breathes it in with the smog from Cowley.

If it's a list, it requires an Oxford comma (post-pended, obviously). Thus:

"I bought fish, and chips, and mushies, and ate them."

If it's not a list, then it doesn't. Usually things that are not a list involve a sub-clause in English.

"I bought fish, chips, and mushies which (being a Brummie) I just don't see the point of."

(Insert large fat sarcastic Churchill here.)

Simple, really. And yet, I may have it wrong. I recommend (http://topicstock.pantip.com/library/topicstock/K2593354/K2593354.html) Kingsley Amis on this subject, and indeed the entire field.

I need to warn you about Miaskovsky: the man was a complete drunken sot working in the Soviet era with a huge lyric talent but not too much in the way of cojones -- either political or musical. Thus symphony #2, if that's the right one, which is scored for a brass band. And is abysmal. And there's 26 others out there.

I defy you, I defy anyone, I refuse to concede that this here is going to be an upcoming Oxford comma (even though it is, and I've made it clear by substituting an ellipsis), to fail to fall in love with Miaskovsky's 27th symphony, which is practically his final work.

After talking to my godmother, I accidentally fell on Opus 9 (not, you will be pleased to learn, a mainstream Catholic propaganda machine insisting that the gas used in Auschwitz "was Helium, because the Nazis wanted to give the Jews a good laugh. I know the yids have always given us a good laugh, particularly when playing away, so fair's fair.")

No, Opus 9 is "Silence in F Minor." I wouldn't disagree with starting here. It's representative, and quite charming.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go away and sob over the middle section of the second movement of #27 ... and wait for the swell ... here it comarghlmnbvcxzsdfghj >bzzzt

Re: Comme à?

[real-aardvark.livejournal.com]

Try Captain Beefheart/Sweet Georgia Brown.

I suppose I should have expected this...