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peterbirksA nice little run at PLO tonight, as I relaxed in front of the TV rather than worrying about proper things like $5-$10. I haven't posted much on PLO recently, so here's a couple of hands, with queries for the more experienced among you. The first hand, in particular, has me wondering whether I did right, even though I won the most that I could have on the hand.
(Pot Limit Omaha) Powered by UltimateBet
Tigerfan77 is at seat 0 with $51.10.
lethal6 is at seat 1 with $51.65.
zodin is at seat 2 with $12.30.
leedavis is at seat 3 with $46.
Procur8or is at seat 5 with $55.35.
Opponent 2 is at seat 6 with $62.65.
Opponent 1 is at seat 7 with $52.60.
snattlerake is at seat 8 with $30.35.
Birks is at seat 9 with $49.50.
The button is at seat 7.
snattlerake posts the small blind of $.25.
Birks posts the big blind of $.50.
Birks: 4h Ah 6c Ad
Pre-flop:
Tigerfan77 folds. lethal6 folds. zodin calls. leedavis calls. Procur8or folds. Opponent 2 folds. Opponent 1 raises to $2.75. snattlerake folds. Birks calls. zodin folds. leedavis folds.
I flat-call here because I am out of position and because a reraise does not commit enough of both our stacks. A reraise by me leaves us both with about $42 in front of us, with me to act first, and only a $14 pot.
Flop (board: As Td 9c):
Just about a dream flop for me. I really want to get all of the money in on the flop, but I can’t see how to do this. Perhaps I should put some small bet in as a lead-out?
Birks checks. Opponent 1 bets $6.75. Birks raises to $27. Opponent 1 calls.
Turn (board: As Td 9c 8c):
Well, this is a fairly horrible card. My Opponent 1 may well have a straight here, making me a 22% shot. There’s $60 in the pot. If my Opponent 1 puts me all-in, I’m getting $80 to $20 for the call. Maybe I should check here, but I get the feeling that the money is going all-in anyway. So I bet it. This is probably wrong.
Birks goes all-in for $19.75. Opponent 1 calls.
River (board: As Td 9c 8c 9s):
Woo hoo. That’s my full house, losing only to quad nines.
Showdown:
Birks shows 4h Ah 6c Ad.
Birks has Ah Ad As 9c 9s: full house, aces full of nines.
Opponent 1 mucks cards.
(Opponent 1 has 8s Kd Qd 9d.)
Birks wins $97.25 with full house, aces full of nines.
Well, if anyone would care to explain my Opponent 1’s play to me, I would love to read it.
+++++++
I ballsed this hand up.
Lancaster (Pot Limit Omaha)
Powered by UltimateBet
Tigerfan77 is at seat 0 with $52.75.
anthmurr is at seat 1 with $49.25.
zodin is at seat 2 with $13.45.
leedavis is at seat 3 with $45.
degorgeous007 is at seat 4 with $25.
Procur8or is at seat 5 with $54.35.
Opponent 2 is at seat 6 with $62.15.
Opponent 1 is at seat 7 with $20.40.
snattlerake is at seat 8 with $57.45.
Birks is at seat 9 with $96.25.
The button is at seat 1.
zodin posts the small blind of $.25.
leedavis posts the big blind of $.50.
degorgeous007 posts out of turn for $.50.
Birks: Ac As Qc Qs
Pre-flop:
degorgeous007 checks. Procur8or folds. Opponent 2 folds. Opponent 1 folds. snattlerake calls. Birks raises to $1. Tigerfan77 folds. anthmurr folds. zodin calls. leedavis calls. degorgeous007 calls. snattlerake calls.
I think that I should raise the pot here.
Flop (board: Kc 6c 4d):
zodin checks. leedavis checks. degorgeous007 checks. snattlerake checks. Birks checks.
I see no reason to bet my non-existent hand at this point
Turn (board: Kc 6c 4d Js):
zodin bets $3. leedavis calls. degorgeous007 folds. snattlerake folds. Birks calls.
I’m just about getting odds for my call here, I think.
River (board: Kc 6c 4d Js Qd):
zodin checks. leedavis checks. Birks checks.
I've made my trip queens, a semi-back-door out Should I bet something here? There’s no way any of these people have AT, but T9 is a possibility. I reckon that a small bet may well get caled by two pair.
zodin shows Jc 9c Ah 9s.
zodin has Jc Ah Kc Js Qd: a pair of jacks.
leedavis shows 5c 6s 3h 4c.
leedavis has 6s 4c Kc 6c 4d: two pair, sixes and fours.
Birks shows Ac As Qc Qs.
Birks has Qc Qs Kc Js Qd: three queens.
$.70 is raked from a pot of $14.
Birks wins $13.30 with three queens.
(Pot Limit Omaha) Powered by UltimateBet
Tigerfan77 is at seat 0 with $51.10.
lethal6 is at seat 1 with $51.65.
zodin is at seat 2 with $12.30.
leedavis is at seat 3 with $46.
Procur8or is at seat 5 with $55.35.
Opponent 2 is at seat 6 with $62.65.
Opponent 1 is at seat 7 with $52.60.
snattlerake is at seat 8 with $30.35.
Birks is at seat 9 with $49.50.
The button is at seat 7.
snattlerake posts the small blind of $.25.
Birks posts the big blind of $.50.
Birks: 4h Ah 6c Ad
Pre-flop:
Tigerfan77 folds. lethal6 folds. zodin calls. leedavis calls. Procur8or folds. Opponent 2 folds. Opponent 1 raises to $2.75. snattlerake folds. Birks calls. zodin folds. leedavis folds.
I flat-call here because I am out of position and because a reraise does not commit enough of both our stacks. A reraise by me leaves us both with about $42 in front of us, with me to act first, and only a $14 pot.
Flop (board: As Td 9c):
Just about a dream flop for me. I really want to get all of the money in on the flop, but I can’t see how to do this. Perhaps I should put some small bet in as a lead-out?
Birks checks. Opponent 1 bets $6.75. Birks raises to $27. Opponent 1 calls.
Turn (board: As Td 9c 8c):
Well, this is a fairly horrible card. My Opponent 1 may well have a straight here, making me a 22% shot. There’s $60 in the pot. If my Opponent 1 puts me all-in, I’m getting $80 to $20 for the call. Maybe I should check here, but I get the feeling that the money is going all-in anyway. So I bet it. This is probably wrong.
Birks goes all-in for $19.75. Opponent 1 calls.
River (board: As Td 9c 8c 9s):
Woo hoo. That’s my full house, losing only to quad nines.
Showdown:
Birks shows 4h Ah 6c Ad.
Birks has Ah Ad As 9c 9s: full house, aces full of nines.
Opponent 1 mucks cards.
(Opponent 1 has 8s Kd Qd 9d.)
Birks wins $97.25 with full house, aces full of nines.
Well, if anyone would care to explain my Opponent 1’s play to me, I would love to read it.
+++++++
I ballsed this hand up.
Lancaster (Pot Limit Omaha)
Powered by UltimateBet
Tigerfan77 is at seat 0 with $52.75.
anthmurr is at seat 1 with $49.25.
zodin is at seat 2 with $13.45.
leedavis is at seat 3 with $45.
degorgeous007 is at seat 4 with $25.
Procur8or is at seat 5 with $54.35.
Opponent 2 is at seat 6 with $62.15.
Opponent 1 is at seat 7 with $20.40.
snattlerake is at seat 8 with $57.45.
Birks is at seat 9 with $96.25.
The button is at seat 1.
zodin posts the small blind of $.25.
leedavis posts the big blind of $.50.
degorgeous007 posts out of turn for $.50.
Birks: Ac As Qc Qs
Pre-flop:
degorgeous007 checks. Procur8or folds. Opponent 2 folds. Opponent 1 folds. snattlerake calls. Birks raises to $1. Tigerfan77 folds. anthmurr folds. zodin calls. leedavis calls. degorgeous007 calls. snattlerake calls.
I think that I should raise the pot here.
Flop (board: Kc 6c 4d):
zodin checks. leedavis checks. degorgeous007 checks. snattlerake checks. Birks checks.
I see no reason to bet my non-existent hand at this point
Turn (board: Kc 6c 4d Js):
zodin bets $3. leedavis calls. degorgeous007 folds. snattlerake folds. Birks calls.
I’m just about getting odds for my call here, I think.
River (board: Kc 6c 4d Js Qd):
zodin checks. leedavis checks. Birks checks.
I've made my trip queens, a semi-back-door out Should I bet something here? There’s no way any of these people have AT, but T9 is a possibility. I reckon that a small bet may well get caled by two pair.
zodin shows Jc 9c Ah 9s.
zodin has Jc Ah Kc Js Qd: a pair of jacks.
leedavis shows 5c 6s 3h 4c.
leedavis has 6s 4c Kc 6c 4d: two pair, sixes and fours.
Birks shows Ac As Qc Qs.
Birks has Qc Qs Kc Js Qd: three queens.
$.70 is raked from a pot of $14.
Birks wins $13.30 with three queens.
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no subject
Date: 2005-09-10 11:10 pm (UTC)Hand 2: Mini-raising really sucks unless you do it often. Its often a tell for aces too...as it was here for you. Just make the standard raise you make. Didnt you flop a nut flush draw? You are a slight favourite, I think...look ma, no maths...against bottom two pair without the flush draw. In fact, if you could all get allin on the flop, I suspect that would be a very +EV play
gl
Dave D
All in on the flop
Date: 2005-09-11 06:07 pm (UTC)My mistake (and I bow to the superior experience and knowledge of two of our three resident PLO experts) was to call my hand "non-existent" on the flop. It is of course very much existent, being an overpair. This might not strike the inexperienced player (like, er, me) as a "made hand", but it does make a massive difference, particulary if, as is the case here, you also have a draw to the nuts. I should have spotted this, and bet accordingly on the flop. I will spot it next time :-)
As for the mini-raise ... these guys think that a pot raise is aces and that a mini-raise is jacks or queens, or a hand that wants to pretend that it is aces. Going back to our earlier conversation on your blog Dave, this is what I mean by "assigning a level of competence" to the opposition. At a higher level, this would be a tell for aces. At this level, it is a tell for a hand significantly less than aces. Now, if I am wrong here, and they are reading my mini-raises as Aces, then I must change my ways. But it seems to be working so far. However, as I wrote, I think in this case a pot-raise is better here, with one limper and a poster behind. I'm fairly certain to get action somewhere.
The poorer players on this site at this level are really still thinking in Hold'em mode. Aces is best, Kings, Queens and Jacks, slightly less good. Suiteds and straight back-ups are nice if they are there, but not considered fundamental. I save my pot raises, as a rule, for 89TJ double-suiteds and the like, where I want to push out the Qx and Kx single-suited hands that would inevitably come along for a limp.
Pete
Re: All in on the flop
Date: 2005-09-11 11:21 pm (UTC)I guess the thing to develop, which we've talked about before, is a feel for the numbers without having to resort to deep thought at the table. The problem is of course, that the numbers are very different to holdem-esque ones. When I said I wasnt using any maths or sims I meant it...I then double checked with twodimes and I was right. This isnt a self-congratulatory BJ, if only, I just used it to show that over time you can get a good feel for situations, even if just through bitter experience.
As to the raising thing, it depends what your ambitions are in PLO. I've never played that small so you may be very right. But if you do want to move up, then having a standard raise for all your hands can be a very useful ploy. Raising different ammounts for different strengths would be nightmarishly bad. Interestingly, I've been experimenting with a not-really-raising-preflop style and that works too. The key in preflop play is not to expose your hand, more than anything.
gl
Dave D
no subject
Date: 2005-09-11 05:46 am (UTC)Hand 2. That's a fine check on the river, by betting you either get check raised and cannot call or everyone folds to your bet. Only better hands than yours will call a bet and only worse hands will fold (with the possibly exception of JJ)
I would try and build the pot on the flop. You have an overpair and nut flush draw on the button. Definaltely worth a small or large bet, depending how you feel.