How it went down
Nov. 16th, 2005 12:54 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
peterbirksThe scene so far. I have limped with AKo and the flop has come AA5. I check and call a smallish bet. Turn brings an 8. I check and my opponent bets 200. What do I do?
What I meant to do was raise. Unfortunately I have a very bad time with the Prima software (which is the same as the Ladbrokes software) at no limit, partly because I use it so rarely. I decided to raise to 650, then to 550, but I ballsed that bit up, by which time I was down to only two seconds before I was forcibly folded, so I quickly clicked the "call" button to remain in the hand. Ho ho.
The river brought a queen, no possible flush on board. I still think that Ax is the most likely holding for my opponent, and I doubt that it's AQ. His betting does not indicate A5 or A8, so I think that I am in front. I bet 250 (mainly a blocking bet that once again attempts to control the amount gambled on this particular hand), intending to call any wimpish raise and to fold to an all-in. Note that I am at least learning something. I have decided on my next action already.
My opponent raises to 600. I put in the next 350 and he shows 55 (kudos to Ribmeister there, by the way!). I am reduced to 1400 chips.
By way of interest, I think that if I raise to 600 on the turn, opponent flat-calls (he later said he was worried that I had A8). I then bet 400 on the river and he flat-calls again. I don't think that I can push him off this hand, although a check-raise all-in on the turn, in these circumstances, might work. But I somehow doubt it.
Now, this brings us back to the limp with AKo. All I can quote here is experience and what has got me into trouble early on in previous tournaments. Raising with AKo pre-flop here (at an early stage of a tournament) has got me into trouble soooo many times, whereas flat-calling has (as in this case), saved me.
Suppose I raise to 200 and the 55 flat-calls, and everyone else folds. That gives us a pot of 525. On that flop I bet 400 and I have to assume he flat calls again. The turn brings the 8 and I do ... what? It looks to me that I have great difficulty in avoiding going broke. Other players might be able to manage it, but I doubt that I could.
I am not being a wimp here; I am simply trying to avoid betting my whole stack. I think that this makes sense.
I was also pleased that I did not fall in love with my hand (easy to do with AK and a flop of AAx rainbow!). Rather than thinking "How am I going to double up!" I allowed for the fact that I might lose. Would Hellmuth have avoided going broke?
Now, as it happened, 1400 chips with blinds at 50-100 is no disaster and, three hands later, I got AA in the small blind. One player raises to 300, Barny calls on the button and I raise all-in, impersonating a Camel Coup. Barny promptly calls with his TT (because he knows the steal play in this position and has probably done it himself several times) and I double through plus a bit to 3100. A few hands later Barny raises all-in for 650 and I call in the small blind with T8 off. he shows AQ and the board comes QJ49A, knocking Barny out and giving me a $100 bounty, plus 15 points.
So, I think that what I am saying here is that, a raise with AKo may be right for some people, but I am pretty sure that it isn't right for me.
I looked at my records, and by far the most frequent reason for my early elimination is when I flop trips (rather than a set) and I am beaten either by the same trips with a higher kicker or the same trips that boat up on the turn. Of course, I win my share of hands in this situation as well, but I decided that I wanted to control this kind of hand so that, if it went wrong, I didn't go broke. In this particular example, I succeeded quite nicely. If the same kind of hand cropped up three levels later, I would play it quite differently, raising pre-flop to isolate the limper.
As it happened, I made the points, going out in 19th, but this left me five points (two places in this tournament, arrrgh), shy of the final table knock-out. I might have been able to pass my way to 17th place, but that isn't my way any more. I raised all in for 2400 (blinds 300-600) in MP1 with QTo and got called by the button with QQ. So, 14th spot in the forum league and no free trip to Vegas. So it goes. But I made that 19th by, in a way, following a cocktail of the Parkinson/Grey/Gardiner "Winning Online" book and Andy Ward's own "this is when you raise all-in" list. I had no monster double-throughs and hardly ever played a hand where I showed my cards. And it could all have been very different if I had played that AKo the way I used to do in the distant past. I would have been walking.
What I meant to do was raise. Unfortunately I have a very bad time with the Prima software (which is the same as the Ladbrokes software) at no limit, partly because I use it so rarely. I decided to raise to 650, then to 550, but I ballsed that bit up, by which time I was down to only two seconds before I was forcibly folded, so I quickly clicked the "call" button to remain in the hand. Ho ho.
The river brought a queen, no possible flush on board. I still think that Ax is the most likely holding for my opponent, and I doubt that it's AQ. His betting does not indicate A5 or A8, so I think that I am in front. I bet 250 (mainly a blocking bet that once again attempts to control the amount gambled on this particular hand), intending to call any wimpish raise and to fold to an all-in. Note that I am at least learning something. I have decided on my next action already.
My opponent raises to 600. I put in the next 350 and he shows 55 (kudos to Ribmeister there, by the way!). I am reduced to 1400 chips.
By way of interest, I think that if I raise to 600 on the turn, opponent flat-calls (he later said he was worried that I had A8). I then bet 400 on the river and he flat-calls again. I don't think that I can push him off this hand, although a check-raise all-in on the turn, in these circumstances, might work. But I somehow doubt it.
Now, this brings us back to the limp with AKo. All I can quote here is experience and what has got me into trouble early on in previous tournaments. Raising with AKo pre-flop here (at an early stage of a tournament) has got me into trouble soooo many times, whereas flat-calling has (as in this case), saved me.
Suppose I raise to 200 and the 55 flat-calls, and everyone else folds. That gives us a pot of 525. On that flop I bet 400 and I have to assume he flat calls again. The turn brings the 8 and I do ... what? It looks to me that I have great difficulty in avoiding going broke. Other players might be able to manage it, but I doubt that I could.
I am not being a wimp here; I am simply trying to avoid betting my whole stack. I think that this makes sense.
I was also pleased that I did not fall in love with my hand (easy to do with AK and a flop of AAx rainbow!). Rather than thinking "How am I going to double up!" I allowed for the fact that I might lose. Would Hellmuth have avoided going broke?
Now, as it happened, 1400 chips with blinds at 50-100 is no disaster and, three hands later, I got AA in the small blind. One player raises to 300, Barny calls on the button and I raise all-in, impersonating a Camel Coup. Barny promptly calls with his TT (because he knows the steal play in this position and has probably done it himself several times) and I double through plus a bit to 3100. A few hands later Barny raises all-in for 650 and I call in the small blind with T8 off. he shows AQ and the board comes QJ49A, knocking Barny out and giving me a $100 bounty, plus 15 points.
So, I think that what I am saying here is that, a raise with AKo may be right for some people, but I am pretty sure that it isn't right for me.
I looked at my records, and by far the most frequent reason for my early elimination is when I flop trips (rather than a set) and I am beaten either by the same trips with a higher kicker or the same trips that boat up on the turn. Of course, I win my share of hands in this situation as well, but I decided that I wanted to control this kind of hand so that, if it went wrong, I didn't go broke. In this particular example, I succeeded quite nicely. If the same kind of hand cropped up three levels later, I would play it quite differently, raising pre-flop to isolate the limper.
As it happened, I made the points, going out in 19th, but this left me five points (two places in this tournament, arrrgh), shy of the final table knock-out. I might have been able to pass my way to 17th place, but that isn't my way any more. I raised all in for 2400 (blinds 300-600) in MP1 with QTo and got called by the button with QQ. So, 14th spot in the forum league and no free trip to Vegas. So it goes. But I made that 19th by, in a way, following a cocktail of the Parkinson/Grey/Gardiner "Winning Online" book and Andy Ward's own "this is when you raise all-in" list. I had no monster double-throughs and hardly ever played a hand where I showed my cards. And it could all have been very different if I had played that AKo the way I used to do in the distant past. I would have been walking.
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Date: 2005-11-16 02:01 pm (UTC)Taking the broader situation into consideration, I think so too. For whatever that's worth.
Very educational. I shall go back and think about this some more.