A quizlet

Aug. 13th, 2005 10:21 am
peterbirks: (Default)
[personal profile] peterbirks
You have T8s in the Big Blind (15/30, Saturday morning UK time). Nutter in MP1 (64%/23%, winning, of course) raises. Called by button (reasonable but looseish 26%-30% range pre-flop, 8% raises), Small blind and you.

Flop is 567 one of your suit. Small blind bets, which you suspect is a draw of some sort. You call. Nutter calls, Button calls.

Turn is a King (not your suit. Small blind bets, you call, nutter calls, button calls.

River is a beautiful nine, giving you the nuts. Small blind bets. Do you (a) raise or (b) call?


Later That Night

I've just had one of those utterly infuriating sessions (well, actually, I am still in it) where I went up early on, then fell back to $100 down (this is $5-$10, my nerves are wrecked) and have got back to nearly even at least four times, before being crushed back down in big pots when heavy favourite on the flop each time. The net result is that you just get more and more determined to win this session. I've been in this situation before, once for 16 hours (still my record online, thank god), through tiredness and sheer bloody-mindedness. I'm only up to 228 hands at the moment, and my excuse is that there is one loose player at the table who really must go broke eventually. As soon as he leaves, I'll pack it in. Honest, I will. Really.

Date: 2005-08-13 11:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jellymillion.livejournal.com
Do you (a) raise or (b) call?

The trouble with raising it the risk that you potentially telegraph your hand to a competent player. If they're all sufficiently smart then the risk is that you get no more value. If you call, then nutter and button are being offered 11-1 and possibly 12-1, which they may feel is good enough to stay in on. And one of them may have K-something and try a raise.

But then someone may consider a raise to be an obvious bluff, because you would be calling to keep them in if you had the goods. In which case you might extract a reraise.

So to me, as usual with these agony-of-indecision problems, it depends on what you think about the players and what you think they're thinking about you at that moment in time.

If they haven't seen me in this situation before, I think I'd toss a coin and make sure, if something similar comes up again in this session, to do the other next time.

you just get more and more determined to win this session

But of course that's counter-productive, as well you know. It's all one long session and the only term that matters is the long one. God, it's easy to trot this stuff out. If only I could write it to myself and actually believe it.

it's all one long game

Date: 2005-08-14 05:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peterbirks.livejournal.com
Yes, I mentioned the situation because it is very rare for me to get involved in wining in a single session. By way of excuse, there were loose players in the game, so I did have a justification for staying, even though I was getting tired (in fact, that's an idea for an article -- the conflicting factors when you decide whether to stay in or leave an online game). If I had been tired and the game had turned bad, I think that I would have accepted the loss.

Oh, and I did end up in front, to the tune of $11.50, and I only left because all bar one of the loosey-goosies either went broke or left).

And I'm sticking to that story.

raise or call?

Date: 2005-08-15 06:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peterbirks.livejournal.com
I chose to call. My reasoning was that if player A was on a total steal, a raise was pointless. Secondly, if I call, I reckon that no-one will place me with the nuts. Thirdly, I think that one of the two players behind me might call with anything, while nutter would definitely raise if he had an 8. If Player (A) ALSO had an eight, I might be in the excellent and rare position of being whipsawed while holding a lock.

Of course, it didn't happen like that. Both the players behind me folded and player (A) showed a pair of eights. So I should have raised.

Re: raise or call?

Date: 2005-08-15 10:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ribmeister.livejournal.com
I would raise simply from the point of view that you're giving one extra person the opportunity to reraise you. The worst thing you probably did was think about it, the poker players giving the hollywoods are always the ones I am wary of raising.

Re: raise or call?

Date: 2005-08-16 05:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peterbirks.livejournal.com
Well, yes, I agree, except that it was online and my call was fairly smooth flat call. So there was no "Holywood factor" affecting the players behind me, of that I am sure.

As you say, even if I raise, nutter might well reraise (although sensible player on button would probably just flat call). This is the same principle when on the river you have a very very good hand that you know beats your opponent's merely very good hand. No need to check-raise here. Just bet, because he will raise you, so you win three bets on the river instead of two.


The call is probably only best if you have two caling stations behind you who will always put in one bet but who are quite likely to fold for two.

Re: raise or call?

Date: 2005-08-16 05:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peterbirks.livejournal.com
Of course, answers also have more credibility if they are posted before I say what happened (I gave you two days!). But as a first-time poster here, you are honourably let off.

Mainly because you are right.

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