Two Limit Hands

[peterbirks]

Something of a long post here, solely of interest to the limit players out there. The first hand is really a discussion of how to handle a guy calling you a moron. The second is how being a moron can sometimes have beneficial results.



I 4-tabled for an hour this evening. Easier than I expected. It’s definitely a matter of getting into the zone.

All this makes playing on Virgin even less attractive. I may ignore the deposit bonus and rakeback (which seems to shrink wvery time I get some of the deposit bonus, making it very hard to even get to the minimum £25 for the money to be sent to me, take my money out, and pocket the (small) profit. It really is the peak of dreadfulness. If you are a crap limit player with no imagination, or a set-pedlar at No Limit who doesn’t use pokertracker, then this is the site for you. If you are anyone interested in playing proper Hold’em with proper software, stay well away.

OK, the hands.

$2/$4 Texas Hold'em
Seat 1: NHSir ( $164.50 ) (TAG: 19.6/6)
Seat 2: gofull2 ( $100 )
Seat 3: GtSuper99 ( $94.50 ) (LAG: 32.5/15)
Seat 4: morph07 ( $74.50 )
Seat 5: Dennis4457 ( $121.26 ) (LP: 35.8/2)
Seat 6: (Button) insane_2 ( $15 )
Seat 7 (small blind): pza_2005 ( $55.21 )
Seat 8: (big blind) Birks ( $290 )
Seat 10: Veenemania1 ( $154.51 )

Birks dealt T♠ T♦

Veenemania1 folds.
NHSir raises [$4].
gofull2 folds.
GtSuper99 calls [$4].
morph07 folds.
Dennis4457 calls [$4].
insane_2 folds.
pza_2005 folds.
Birks raises [$4].
NHSir calls [$2].
GtSuper99 calls [$2].
Dennis4457 calls [$2]

The three-bet here is marginal. I may well be a bad second-best and at best I am likely to be a coin-flip against NHSir. However, the presence of the other two players, who really could be coming along with anything (although the LAG player would have reraised if he was beating me) probably gives me pot equity of about 25%. I want to retain the offensive. So I three-bet. It also gives me some kind of clue on NHSir’s holding. He isn’t likely to flat-call my three-bet with Aces or Kings. So, if he four-bets, I’m in bad shape. But if that four-bet forces out the players behind him, my odds are still okay to play. However, he calls my three-bet, which just about marks him with AK or AQ.

Dealing Flop [ J♣, 8♥, 7♠ ]

Well, if NHSir has the AK or AQ, he will probably fold up to my bet. If he has Queens, he will raise and if he has two jacks, he may flat call and I am probably fucked, or may raise to try to get rid of a gutshot draw (foolish boy, they will call).

Birks bets [$2].
NHSir folds.

So, AK or AQ it was

GtSuper99 calls [$2].
Dennis4457 calls [$2].

Dealing Turn [ J♠ ]

If another Jack is out there, so be it, but I don’t care. I’m betting this against these opponents.

Birks bets [$4].
GtSuper99 calls [$4].
Dennis4457 calls [$4].

Dealing River [ 8♦ ]

Birks checks.
not so good. There could well be an eight out there. And if I bet, I'm probably only getting called if I am beaten. Alternatively, they may both have missed and one of them might try a bluff. A check here is best.

GtSuper99 checks.
Dennis4457 checks.

No such luck

Birks shows [ T♠, T♦ ] two pairs, jacks and tens.
GtSuper99 doesn't show [ T♣, K♣ ] two pairs, jacks and eights.
Dennis4457 doesn't show [ 3♣, 7♣ ] two pairs, jacks and eights.
Birks wins $43 from the main pot with two pairs, jacks and tens.

But the point of the post is the conversation I had with NHSir over the next couple of hands. It ran like this.


NHSir: your XXXXing crazy
Birks: yup ... take my money
NHSir: next time im gonna break you
NHSir: ten ten out of position woot
NHSir: thats the bomb
Birks: fine by me
NHSir: especially multiway
Birks: you are trying to convince the table that you are the good player
Birks: i know that you are the good player
Birks: but i'm the old guy with lots of cash
Birks: it's a great feeling
NHSir: good enough ;-)
NHSir: i respect that ;-)
++++

This hand is just darned hilarious. I’m not particularly proud of my play here, BTW. There’s laggy and there’s laggy. I had no real information on the opposition. A raise by me here is only positive EV against a bunch of weak-tighters.

$2/$4 Texas Hold'em
Seat 1: nsh925 ( $98.50 )
Seat 2: zelVA ( $228 )
Seat 3: pokergal34c ( $34.50 )
Seat 4: vinniepooh ( $47 )
Seat 5: Birks ( $214.50 )
Seat 6 blackpepspus ( $151.40 )
Seat 7: Button: uberboady ( $77.34 )
Seat 8: (Small Blind) Wasser_Inn ( $153 )
Seat 9: (Big Blind) kickabuck222 ( $63 )

Dealt to Birks [ 7♠ 6♠ ]
nsh925 folds.
pokergal34c folds.
vinniepooh folds.
Birks raises [$4].
blackpepspus folds.
Wasser_Inn folds.
kickabuck222 calls [$2].

Dealing Flop [ J♥, A♠, T♥ ]

kickabuck222 bets [$2].

I have no info on this guy, but default $2-$4 play would indicate not a straight, possibly a bad Ace, possibly a draw, possibly something like a Jack-Queen or Jack-King. I really ought to fold this hand on the flop. But, instead;

Birks raises [$4].
kickabuck222 calls [$2].


Dealing Turn [ J♣ ]

kickabuck222 checks.
Birks bets [$4].

Even worse.

kickabuck222 calls [$4].

Dealing River [ 4♣ ]

kickabuck222 checks.
Birks checks.

kickabuck222 shows [ 6♥, 5♥ ] a pair of jacks.
Birks shows [ 7♠, 6♠ ] a pair of jacks.

Birks wins $24 from the main pot with a pair of jacks with seven kicker.

What A Playa!!!

Comments

Your Hands

[(Anonymous)]

Hi Peter,

It pays to play hyper aggro sometimes when you don't overdo it, because playing like that gets them to overplay worse hands when you pound them with a set or overpair. In the last hand though you made a serious error in checking behind, as your only hope (usually :) ) of winning is to bet when checked to, and the loss of $2 isn't nearly as big a mistake as losing a pot. It would really have sucked for someone with KQ to take that pot down when they were unlikely to call on the end except out of curiosity.

BluffTHIS!

Re: Your Hands

[peterbirks.livejournal.com]

I take your point Bluff. My view was that this guy was calling with virtually anything that I thought he might have. You may well be right. I'm putting four bucks in to win $24 here. I'd need to work out rougly what percentage of the time he would call when beating me, how often he would fold when beating me, and how often he would call when losing to me (in this case, zero per cent).

My loss if he calls is $4 and my gain if he folds is $24. So I need him to fold one time in six when he is in front. You may well be right, looked at that way, the odds are quite attractive (remember, I was four-tabling for the first time here, so I didn't have much time for contemplation).

At $5-$10 I would have fired in a bet without hesitation, but at $2-$4, it often seems that, if they call the turn, then they call the river with just about anything, unless they are renowned loose-passive players who play with anything to the river and will then, inexplicably at times, fold to your river bet ("oh? No more cards to come? I've just noticed that I have shit. Fold")

As a rule I'm not a fan of the "bet on the river because that's the only way you can win" school of thought, but in this case, where I have revealed no weakness, it almost certainly has its place. I might even get something like KT to lay down.

PJ

Re: Your Hands

[(Anonymous)]

It's not an obvious error to me, it depends on the player. One of the problems we face is not knowing what are opponent's fold. Sure if you fancy K-10 might lay down then fine & in that instance a player calling the turn hasn't made the mental committment to call the river. If there were no flush-draw & you had say 89s then a check becomes much more of the right play imo. To be honest its hard to have a blind feel for these scenarios, I'm not sure I play them right at all.

Incidentally, I'm not a fan of the raise unless it's rare.

chaos