Rough

[peterbirks]

So, for those of you who can't recall the sordid details of my failed flat purchase, here's a brief summary (the phrase "Cliff Notes" will not be used here, mainly because I never used them (if they existed when I studied, which I doubt), I'm not sure whether they are sold in the UK (which means that it's a US-centric phrase, something that no professional, or talented amateur, writer should use when it's an international audience -- although I know I may transgress this rule myself sometimes!), and, well, "summary" is a shorter word). Of course, "précis" is shorter still, but, given many readers problems with all words French, I'd better stick to summary.

First, the couple downstaris start looking for a house. They put in an offer. It's accepted. I arrange mortgage for purchase of flat downstairs. Everything is running smoothly until...

Second, Vendor of the house being bought by couple downstairs, dies. Drops dead. Mid-thirties.

Thirdly, Everything goes into chaos, but widow assures couple downstairs that she still wants to sell to them. Time drags.

Fourthly, Widow gets breast cancer. Flies to America for treatment. Widow returns. Time drags.

Fifthly Gets to last week, about eight months on. Widow suddenly decides that she isn't going to sell the house after all, but is going to rent it out.

So,yesterday, I phone solicitor. Get answerphone. Odd.

Today, I phone solicitor again. Ask if he's around.

"No, I'm afraid he died. We were at his funeral yesterday."

Jesus. Has any deal been so cursed? He was a nice guy, too.

I'm tempted just to hide my head in the sand about this and let everyone else sort it out. There would be a certain poetic justice for solicitors to try to get in touch with me, only to be told that the solicitor was dead. The only minor problem is that the deeds to my flat are still parked somewhere in Croydon. Hey ho.


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I was going to post this as a hand history, but it's quite easy to remember, and it raises an interesting point. I feel that I made the right play here, given that I am inexperienced at the game, but I would be interested to know if anyone else would have played it differently.

I'm in the steal position, with CO and Button behind me, 10-handed at $100 buy-in. Blinds are 50c and $1.

Me: $102
CO (18%/4%, sample of 30 hands, slightly down in the half-hour that I've been playing): $130
Button (25%/13%, sample of 10 hands, losing $21.50): $18.50

My hand, Qc Qs

Passed to me and I raise to $4
CO flat calls
Button raises all-in.
SB Folds
BB Folds
I reraise to $40. CO folds.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Comments

Seems OK to me

[(Anonymous)]

OK I'll have a go at this. Firstly the raise to $4: Standard and fine. Flat call from CO could be a wide range, but even with his stats I think it's unlikely he has AA, KK or AK. Everyone reraises those. Button all-in is interesting and it depends a bit on your feel for him. If he's just lost a few, he's maybe tilting, but he could have landed AK or even AQ or AJ. You're ahead of his range and want to be in a pot with his money.

So the question is - do you want to be in a sidepot with CO? Folding is out of the question, your hand is too good and there is too much money in the pot. Call and if CO calls, you have $55 in the pot with £85 left. If an ace or a king comes on the flop you might consider passing, but you would really have to continue if you didn't want to get the pot stolen. If you did that I think you might have to call the raise (not too sure about this, but I think I would). But I think you'd have a tricky decision for all of your money.

So I think the reraise is fine, and the right amount, as you're really only trying to isolate.

If CO pushed preflop, what would you have done?

(Bad luck on the flat by the way)

Lurker

Re: Seems OK to me

[(Anonymous)]

"Cliff Notes" is definitely American. When I was at school we had 'Letts Revise' books.

DY

Flat Purchase

[(Anonymous)]

I've probably missed the odd link in the flat-purchasing saga, but is there only one other property in the world for the couple downstairs?

Cheers,

Niall L

Re: Flat Purchase

[peterbirks.livejournal.com]

Well, no, but we are effectively back at "Square One". They are just setting out again to look for somewhere to buy. While the purchase of the original house meant that all my stuff could be put "on hold", the situation now really is that I have to tell solicitor and bank that the chain has collapsed. So, we start again. My feelings now, however, are less positive. I know that this makes little sense, but, well, that's the way it is. If I could have got it at the fixed rate last December, that would have been fine. But now, rates are higher, prices are higher, and in fundamental terms I am less keen.

PJ

Re: Seems OK to me

[peterbirks.livejournal.com]

Since we have had silence from the great and good, I have to assume approval.

As you say, the question was, do I want to be in a sidepot with CO? Perhaps if I had more of a feel for the game, I would take that risk. But I am OOP with QQ and he has flat-called a raise. I suspect a set-farm here (a lower pair). And that means that I am not really comfortable with any flop that does not include a Queen.

Now, "what if CO pushes?". I actually considered this possibility, and decided that it was very unlikely to happen. (and it didn't.)

After all, he's flat-called my raise in the first instance, so what can he have to merit an all-in on the second instance? If it was a tournament and he was a quality player, it could be a ploy to exploit a squeeze from one of the blinds. But in a low buy-in cash game? No, these guys aren't that tricky.

If he reraises all-in I insta-call. I reckon this would be a low pair trying to isolate against the wide range of the button all-in.

More worrying is if he flat-calls the reraise. He's then been consistent with the first and third raises, but a small pair becomes much less likely and a big pair becomes a possibility. If he flat-calls the reraise, I'm probably giving up if an A or K flops and he bets big. If low cards come, it depends on the seize of his post-flop bet. Chances are I'm calling with a heavy heart on an all-low flop.

The flop came something like 7 8 A 5 9. Opponent had Ace-Ten off, so my read that he had a wide range was okay (although, of course, I still lost the pot). No idea what CO had, but on that flop, if he had flat-called the second time, I probably lead out with something like a half-pot bet. That's been known to get this kind of player to fold if he has KK. If raises then I fold and if he calls I have to assume he sees himself as committed, so I give up on the turn. This might all be wrong. I haven't had this kind of situation, so I'm still a bit in the dark about it.

PJ

Re: Flat Purchase

[(Anonymous)]

Following my last post (I agree to buy flat downstairs, agree price, vendor wants more money, we argue, sale falls through), pretty much exactly the same reasoning led me not to buy the downstairs flat when it came up again 3 months later (sale to naive buyer fell through with mortgage problems) when he offered it to me again, but for £72,000 instead of £63,000. I declined, he sold it to someone else, 5 years (and about £10,000 of work) later they sold it for £175,000.

Having someone you like living downstairs is fine, the current owner is lovely, and we get on fine. But she's in Australia for a year or two and her tenants are a nightmare. There's nothing I can really do because it's them that complain about us (3 kids = noise) - which is fine, but every single day!

So there are non-financial reasons to consider the purchase even though it's a hassle and more expensive than it was 6 months ago. Financially, it probably wouldn't make sense to combine the flats into one house, but that's an option you'd have - or you could rent it out - or sell both together and buy somewhere else.

Matt Harrison

Re: Flat Purchase

[peterbirks.livejournal.com]

Hi Matt:

Well, clearly, I've had many long hours pondering precisely this point. I concluded that:

a) I had a "certain level" of emotional (non-financial) interst here. Now, the problem was putting a value on it. In the end, I reckoned, about £20K.

b) I don't think prices are going to double in the next five years. In fact, I'll go further. I know they aren't.

c) I really think that this is the peak. I had a limit of £260K, and there's no way I am going over it. Since it now appears that there is no chance of getting the flat for that, I've mentally dumped the deal. And I feel much happier for so doing.

d) It's only a chance that any new downstairs neighbours will be bad. They might be brilliant! And, if they and I are not suited, well, I can always move.

e) There's a lot of compensation for not buying downstairs. One is the simple fact that I have lots of cash, far lower outgoings, and far fewer worries. I can spend that cash on really making this flat nice. I can spend the money on the outside (expenditure that really ought to be shared) even if the sharer of the freehold doesn't want to spend the money, simply because I want to.

So, in other words, the downsides of not getting downstairs are compensated for in lots of ways.

PJ