Some Hands
Dec. 11th, 2007 11:35 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
peterbirksA small loss this morning in my FPPP accumulation, but not wholly unsatisfactory. Although I booked a small loss, I felt more “at ease” by the end. I think that the whole “I cann’t beat Full Tilt” psychology has been affecting the way I play. The second hand in this list (where I have TT under the gun) is an example of this. As; seasoned poker players know, the “let’s try something different for a change” attitude is rarely a good idea unless it’s based on sound historical research. I played a couple of hands “differently” (one of them is reprinted here – it wasn’t a bad loss, but I played so horribly that I don’t have the nerve to print it) and got nowhere (apart from a difficult spot) as a result.
But, here’s an example of what seems to happen to me. In the first two hands, the vuillain is the same player each time, and I have no history on him.
FullTiltPoker Game #- $0.50/$1 - No Limit Hold'em
Seat 1: john1226 ($101)
Seat 2: robgraves777 ($84.80)
Seat 3: wille1974 ($40)
Seat 4: Villain ($58.50)
Seat 5: Hero ($100)
Seat 6: Tiltx ($87.80)
Seat 7: HEAT0018 ($78.10)
Seat 8: chickenking ($154)
Seat 9: VicVega92 ($75.85)
Villain posts the small blind of $0.50
Hero posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [8♡ T♡]
Tiltx folds
HEAT0018 calls $1
chickenking calls $1
VicVega92 folds
john1226 folds
robgraves777 folds
wille1974 folds
Villain calls $0.50
Hero checks
Well, not much that I can do about things so far.
*** FLOP *** [T◊ 7♣ 7◊]
A standard for Full Tilt. First hand in and I have a hand that has all the script of a small win or a big loss. Why can’t these fuckers raise and let me fold in peace? (That’s not a serious statement, by the way. Obviously, free flops are good).
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain checks
Hero bets $3
Lead out with a set, lead out with top pair.
HEAT0018 has 15 seconds left to act
HEAT0018 calls $3
As; I wrote yesterday, there seems to be a habit of “taking one off the top” or even “let’s see if he follows through on the turn” on Full Tilt. If a player with HEAT’s stats had 66 or KQ on NoIQ, I’d expect a fold here. His call increases my net EV, but also increases my volatility.
chickenking folds
Villain raises to $13
EVERY FUCKING TIME….
Hero folds
HEAT0018 has 15 seconds left to act
HEAT0018 folds
Uncalled bet of $10 returned to Villain
Villain mucks
Villain wins the pot ($12.35)
*** SUMMARY ***
Only a net loss of $4, but on the IP Network, I bet in these situations and get a couple of folds at least 60%, maybe 70%, of the time. Here I get a couple of calls 70% of the time and a check-raise the other thirty…. They can’t have trips that many times…..
Total pot $13 | Rake $0.65
Board: [T◊ 7♣ 7◊]
Seat 4: Villain (small blind) collected ($12.35), mucked
Seat 5: Hero (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: HEAT0018 folded on the Flop
Seat 8: chickenking folded on the Flop
Anyhoo, a circuit or so later, and here we go again.
FullTiltPoker Game - $0.50/$1 - No Limit Hold'em -
Seat 1: john1226 ($101.85)
Seat 2: robgraves777 ($90.15)
Seat 3: wille1974 ($40.50)
Seat 4: Villain ($68.35)
Seat 5: Hero ($95.50)
Seat 6: Tiltx ($89)
Seat 7: HEAT0018 ($67.10)
Seat 8: chickenking ($151.50)
Seat 9: VicVega92 ($74.35)
wille1974 posts the small blind of $0.50
Villain posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [T◊ T♣]
Hero raises to $3
This is a profitable line for me on every other site, even full ring. FTP is nine-handed rather than 10. Whatever counterplays I might use, limping or folding are not two I would countenance. However, a large number of players at this level do seem to limp withithis kind of hand UTG.
Tiltx folds
HEAT0018 folds
chickenking folds
VicVega92 folds
john1226 folds
robgraves777 folds
wille1974 folds
Villain calls $2
Raises UTG on the IP Network tend to take it down more than half the time. On Full Tilt I expect two callers and a blind defence. At least this time I’ve only got a blind defence….
*** FLOP *** [A♠ 6◊ J◊]
Yeah, well, that’s about standard.
Villain checks
Hero bets $4.50
Villain calls $4.50
And from here I make the “let’s try something different” mistake.
*** TURN *** [A♠ 6◊ J◊] [8◊]
Villain checks
Hero bets $9.50
On the IP Network, if I am called on the flop, I would just check the turn and then decide to call the river depending on the size of opponent’s bet (basically, annythinng ore than 25% of the pot is a clear fold unless opponent is very loose and likely to bet a missed flush. But even then a bet of more than 25% is usually indicative of something. There’s little more sickening to call a half-pot bet in this situation because you think that opponent has missed the flush – only to see that he has a paired his Ace.
Villain calls $9.50
*** RIVER *** [A♠ 6◊ J◊ 8◊] [9♠]
Villain bets $16
What d’ya reckon? Not that it matters. I’m folding anyway. He’s probably got Ace-Nine.
Hero folds
So, once again, a hand where I expect a quiet profit on IP turns into a loss of 7 big bets on Full Tilt.
It’s the sheer repetitiveness of hands like this that get you down when it happens round after round, hour after hour, day after day.
But then you realize. Hold on, when did I last fluke a set on the turn on Full Tilt? Darned if I can remember. Not only do you need to take a number of these hands down a large percentage of the time when you miss, but, when you are called (as is more often the case on Full Tilt) then, sometimes, you actually have to improve your hand. And, well, it seems a long time since I had a hand which I was confident (or even hopeful) might be winning at showdown.
Uncalled bet of $16 returned to Villain
Villain mucks
Villain wins the pot ($32.80)
++++++++++++++++++++
Back on the IP Network, I thought “well, things can’t get anny worse. But they did.
: Texas Hold'em NL $0.50/$1.00
Table Esperanza
Seat 1: beirnesyboy ($179.24 in chips)
Seat 2: Hero ($99.65 in chips) DEALER
Seat 4: Turbovvv ($91.85 in chips)
Seat 5: Klaud10Z ($98.50 in chips)
Seat 6: TAFFY32 ($20.00 in chips)
Seat 7: AllxinxPlease ($46.20 in chips)
Seat 9: Tofsen1 ($99.05 in chips)
Seat 10: szabi777 ($35.60 in chips)
Turbovvv: Post SB $0.50
Klaud10Z: Post BB $1.00
TAFFY32: Post BB $1.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [A♡ A◊]
Dealt to Klaud10Z [K♡ Q◊]
TAFFY32: Check
AllxinxPlease: Fold
Tofsen1: Fold
szabi777: Fold
beirnesyboy: Fold
Hero: Raise $3.50
Turbovvv: Fold
Klaud10Z: Raise $9.00
TAFFY32: Fold
Hero: Raise $20.00
Klaud10Z: Call $13.50
*** FLOP *** [5♣ K◊ 4◊]
Klaud10Z: Check
Hero: Check
*** TURN *** [S2]
Klaud10Z: Check
Hero: Bet $20.00
Klaud10Z: Raise $75.00
Hero: Call $55.00
*** RIVER *** [K♠]
Ugh.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $195.50 Rake $3.00
Klaud10Z: wins $195.50
Texas Hold'em NL $0.50/$1.00 10-Dec-2007
Table TURBO Swayzee
Seat 1: Villain 2 ($150.60 in chips)
Seat 2: AesculanusM ($40.40 in chips)
Seat 5: Gialu ($56.95 in chips)
Seat 6: Mr198546 ($41.15 in chips)
Seat 7: Fonzio ($44.95 in chips)
Seat 9: Hero ($84.50 in chips) DEALER
Seat 10: Tofsen1 ($116.90 in chips)
Tofsen1: Post SB $0.50
Villain 2: Post BB $1.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Q◊ A♠]
AesculanusM: Fold
Gialu: Fold
Mr198546: Fold
Fonzio: Fold
Hero: Raise $4.50
Tofsen1: Fold
Villain 2: Call $3.50
*** FLOP *** [4♡ A◊ 8♠]
Villain 2: Check
Hero: Bet $7.00
Villain 2: Raise $14.00
This guy is a lively player, something like 36%/23% with a corresponding aggression factor post-flop. A check-raise on this kind of hand could be a decent Ace, two-pair, or perhaps a set. However, like many very aggressive players, they can’t resist slow-playing monsters. So I don’t really put him on a set here. More likely a range of AQ AJ AT A8 A4. If he’s got A9 A7 A6 A5 A3 A2, I’d expect him to flat call, as I would 88 or 44. AK is an outside possibility. I’d expect this type of player to repop with AK, but perhaps he thinks it’s stronger than it is.
Hero: Call $7.00
*** TURN *** [5♡]
Villain 2: Bet $14.00
Hero: Call $14.00
Only $14 into the $35 pot doesn’t make me change my range estimate.
*** RIVER *** [J♠]
Villain 2: Bet $23.00
Hero: Fold
This is so marginal it’s untrue. But it’s a bet that means to me either a total miss or a hand that I can’t beat. Since that was a non-drawy board, I’m calling $23 to win $85, so I have to be winning one time in four. I can beat AT (but would he bet AT here? Probably not), I tie with AQ, I lose to AK AJ A8 A4. Maybe I’m beating complete shit, maybe he has A9. The bet just doesnn’t seem right for complete shit. I think he wants a call.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $85.50 Rake $3.00
Villain 2: wins $85.50
+++++++++++
By this point I was beginning to lose all faith in my ability to play this game. I’d suckered a guy in with KQ, only to lose to a five-outer (it happens, I consoled myself that I’d won losts of Sklansky dollars) and then I’d made whhat I felt was a correct fold, but which was still niggling at me. Surely things couldn’t get any worse….
The same aggressive 36%/23% player as last time. I had reloaded after my previous debacle had reduced me to fifty bucks. I’d won a few hands here and there. Nothing special, and had built up to $140. My nemesis had nigh-on $200.
I don't really think that my choice is that difficult on the river, but when I say that, there's often a diversity of opinion....
Texas Hold'em NL $0.50/$1.00 10-Dec-2007
Table TURBO Swayzee
Seat 1: Villain 2 ($191.35 in chips)
Seat 2: AesculanusM ($37.40 in chips)
Seat 4: RayLi ($15.50 in chips) DEALER
Seat 5: Gialu ($26.95 in chips)
Seat 6: Mr198546 ($40.65 in chips)
Seat 9: Hero ($140.10 in chips)
Seat 10: Tofsen1 ($114.90 in chips)
Gialu: Post SB $0.50
Mr198546: Post BB $1.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Villain 2 [? ?]
Dealt to Hero [K♠ K◊]
Hero: Raise $3.00
Tofsen1: Fold
Villain 2: Call $3.00
AesculanusM: Fold
RayLi: Fold
Gialu: Fold
Mr198546: Fold
*** FLOP *** [T◊ 2♡ 6♡]
Hero: Bet $5.00
Villain 2: Raise $10.00
Hero: Raise $20.00
Villain 2: Call $15.00
$56 in pot, $112 effective stacks behind.
*** TURN *** [6♠]
Hero: Bet $40.00
Villain 2: Call $40.00
$136 in pot, $72 effective stacks behind.
*** RIVER *** [J◊]
Hero: ??
But, here’s an example of what seems to happen to me. In the first two hands, the vuillain is the same player each time, and I have no history on him.
FullTiltPoker Game #- $0.50/$1 - No Limit Hold'em
Seat 1: john1226 ($101)
Seat 2: robgraves777 ($84.80)
Seat 3: wille1974 ($40)
Seat 4: Villain ($58.50)
Seat 5: Hero ($100)
Seat 6: Tiltx ($87.80)
Seat 7: HEAT0018 ($78.10)
Seat 8: chickenking ($154)
Seat 9: VicVega92 ($75.85)
Villain posts the small blind of $0.50
Hero posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [8♡ T♡]
Tiltx folds
HEAT0018 calls $1
chickenking calls $1
VicVega92 folds
john1226 folds
robgraves777 folds
wille1974 folds
Villain calls $0.50
Hero checks
Well, not much that I can do about things so far.
*** FLOP *** [T◊ 7♣ 7◊]
A standard for Full Tilt. First hand in and I have a hand that has all the script of a small win or a big loss. Why can’t these fuckers raise and let me fold in peace? (That’s not a serious statement, by the way. Obviously, free flops are good).
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain checks
Hero bets $3
Lead out with a set, lead out with top pair.
HEAT0018 has 15 seconds left to act
HEAT0018 calls $3
As; I wrote yesterday, there seems to be a habit of “taking one off the top” or even “let’s see if he follows through on the turn” on Full Tilt. If a player with HEAT’s stats had 66 or KQ on NoIQ, I’d expect a fold here. His call increases my net EV, but also increases my volatility.
chickenking folds
Villain raises to $13
EVERY FUCKING TIME….
Hero folds
HEAT0018 has 15 seconds left to act
HEAT0018 folds
Uncalled bet of $10 returned to Villain
Villain mucks
Villain wins the pot ($12.35)
*** SUMMARY ***
Only a net loss of $4, but on the IP Network, I bet in these situations and get a couple of folds at least 60%, maybe 70%, of the time. Here I get a couple of calls 70% of the time and a check-raise the other thirty…. They can’t have trips that many times…..
Total pot $13 | Rake $0.65
Board: [T◊ 7♣ 7◊]
Seat 4: Villain (small blind) collected ($12.35), mucked
Seat 5: Hero (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: HEAT0018 folded on the Flop
Seat 8: chickenking folded on the Flop
Anyhoo, a circuit or so later, and here we go again.
FullTiltPoker Game - $0.50/$1 - No Limit Hold'em -
Seat 1: john1226 ($101.85)
Seat 2: robgraves777 ($90.15)
Seat 3: wille1974 ($40.50)
Seat 4: Villain ($68.35)
Seat 5: Hero ($95.50)
Seat 6: Tiltx ($89)
Seat 7: HEAT0018 ($67.10)
Seat 8: chickenking ($151.50)
Seat 9: VicVega92 ($74.35)
wille1974 posts the small blind of $0.50
Villain posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [T◊ T♣]
Hero raises to $3
This is a profitable line for me on every other site, even full ring. FTP is nine-handed rather than 10. Whatever counterplays I might use, limping or folding are not two I would countenance. However, a large number of players at this level do seem to limp withithis kind of hand UTG.
Tiltx folds
HEAT0018 folds
chickenking folds
VicVega92 folds
john1226 folds
robgraves777 folds
wille1974 folds
Villain calls $2
Raises UTG on the IP Network tend to take it down more than half the time. On Full Tilt I expect two callers and a blind defence. At least this time I’ve only got a blind defence….
*** FLOP *** [A♠ 6◊ J◊]
Yeah, well, that’s about standard.
Villain checks
Hero bets $4.50
Villain calls $4.50
And from here I make the “let’s try something different” mistake.
*** TURN *** [A♠ 6◊ J◊] [8◊]
Villain checks
Hero bets $9.50
On the IP Network, if I am called on the flop, I would just check the turn and then decide to call the river depending on the size of opponent’s bet (basically, annythinng ore than 25% of the pot is a clear fold unless opponent is very loose and likely to bet a missed flush. But even then a bet of more than 25% is usually indicative of something. There’s little more sickening to call a half-pot bet in this situation because you think that opponent has missed the flush – only to see that he has a paired his Ace.
Villain calls $9.50
*** RIVER *** [A♠ 6◊ J◊ 8◊] [9♠]
Villain bets $16
What d’ya reckon? Not that it matters. I’m folding anyway. He’s probably got Ace-Nine.
Hero folds
So, once again, a hand where I expect a quiet profit on IP turns into a loss of 7 big bets on Full Tilt.
It’s the sheer repetitiveness of hands like this that get you down when it happens round after round, hour after hour, day after day.
But then you realize. Hold on, when did I last fluke a set on the turn on Full Tilt? Darned if I can remember. Not only do you need to take a number of these hands down a large percentage of the time when you miss, but, when you are called (as is more often the case on Full Tilt) then, sometimes, you actually have to improve your hand. And, well, it seems a long time since I had a hand which I was confident (or even hopeful) might be winning at showdown.
Uncalled bet of $16 returned to Villain
Villain mucks
Villain wins the pot ($32.80)
++++++++++++++++++++
Back on the IP Network, I thought “well, things can’t get anny worse. But they did.
: Texas Hold'em NL $0.50/$1.00
Table Esperanza
Seat 1: beirnesyboy ($179.24 in chips)
Seat 2: Hero ($99.65 in chips) DEALER
Seat 4: Turbovvv ($91.85 in chips)
Seat 5: Klaud10Z ($98.50 in chips)
Seat 6: TAFFY32 ($20.00 in chips)
Seat 7: AllxinxPlease ($46.20 in chips)
Seat 9: Tofsen1 ($99.05 in chips)
Seat 10: szabi777 ($35.60 in chips)
Turbovvv: Post SB $0.50
Klaud10Z: Post BB $1.00
TAFFY32: Post BB $1.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [A♡ A◊]
Dealt to Klaud10Z [K♡ Q◊]
TAFFY32: Check
AllxinxPlease: Fold
Tofsen1: Fold
szabi777: Fold
beirnesyboy: Fold
Hero: Raise $3.50
Turbovvv: Fold
Klaud10Z: Raise $9.00
TAFFY32: Fold
Hero: Raise $20.00
Klaud10Z: Call $13.50
*** FLOP *** [5♣ K◊ 4◊]
Klaud10Z: Check
Hero: Check
*** TURN *** [S2]
Klaud10Z: Check
Hero: Bet $20.00
Klaud10Z: Raise $75.00
Hero: Call $55.00
*** RIVER *** [K♠]
Ugh.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $195.50 Rake $3.00
Klaud10Z: wins $195.50
Texas Hold'em NL $0.50/$1.00 10-Dec-2007
Table TURBO Swayzee
Seat 1: Villain 2 ($150.60 in chips)
Seat 2: AesculanusM ($40.40 in chips)
Seat 5: Gialu ($56.95 in chips)
Seat 6: Mr198546 ($41.15 in chips)
Seat 7: Fonzio ($44.95 in chips)
Seat 9: Hero ($84.50 in chips) DEALER
Seat 10: Tofsen1 ($116.90 in chips)
Tofsen1: Post SB $0.50
Villain 2: Post BB $1.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Q◊ A♠]
AesculanusM: Fold
Gialu: Fold
Mr198546: Fold
Fonzio: Fold
Hero: Raise $4.50
Tofsen1: Fold
Villain 2: Call $3.50
*** FLOP *** [4♡ A◊ 8♠]
Villain 2: Check
Hero: Bet $7.00
Villain 2: Raise $14.00
This guy is a lively player, something like 36%/23% with a corresponding aggression factor post-flop. A check-raise on this kind of hand could be a decent Ace, two-pair, or perhaps a set. However, like many very aggressive players, they can’t resist slow-playing monsters. So I don’t really put him on a set here. More likely a range of AQ AJ AT A8 A4. If he’s got A9 A7 A6 A5 A3 A2, I’d expect him to flat call, as I would 88 or 44. AK is an outside possibility. I’d expect this type of player to repop with AK, but perhaps he thinks it’s stronger than it is.
Hero: Call $7.00
*** TURN *** [5♡]
Villain 2: Bet $14.00
Hero: Call $14.00
Only $14 into the $35 pot doesn’t make me change my range estimate.
*** RIVER *** [J♠]
Villain 2: Bet $23.00
Hero: Fold
This is so marginal it’s untrue. But it’s a bet that means to me either a total miss or a hand that I can’t beat. Since that was a non-drawy board, I’m calling $23 to win $85, so I have to be winning one time in four. I can beat AT (but would he bet AT here? Probably not), I tie with AQ, I lose to AK AJ A8 A4. Maybe I’m beating complete shit, maybe he has A9. The bet just doesnn’t seem right for complete shit. I think he wants a call.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $85.50 Rake $3.00
Villain 2: wins $85.50
+++++++++++
By this point I was beginning to lose all faith in my ability to play this game. I’d suckered a guy in with KQ, only to lose to a five-outer (it happens, I consoled myself that I’d won losts of Sklansky dollars) and then I’d made whhat I felt was a correct fold, but which was still niggling at me. Surely things couldn’t get any worse….
The same aggressive 36%/23% player as last time. I had reloaded after my previous debacle had reduced me to fifty bucks. I’d won a few hands here and there. Nothing special, and had built up to $140. My nemesis had nigh-on $200.
I don't really think that my choice is that difficult on the river, but when I say that, there's often a diversity of opinion....
Texas Hold'em NL $0.50/$1.00 10-Dec-2007
Table TURBO Swayzee
Seat 1: Villain 2 ($191.35 in chips)
Seat 2: AesculanusM ($37.40 in chips)
Seat 4: RayLi ($15.50 in chips) DEALER
Seat 5: Gialu ($26.95 in chips)
Seat 6: Mr198546 ($40.65 in chips)
Seat 9: Hero ($140.10 in chips)
Seat 10: Tofsen1 ($114.90 in chips)
Gialu: Post SB $0.50
Mr198546: Post BB $1.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Villain 2 [? ?]
Dealt to Hero [K♠ K◊]
Hero: Raise $3.00
Tofsen1: Fold
Villain 2: Call $3.00
AesculanusM: Fold
RayLi: Fold
Gialu: Fold
Mr198546: Fold
*** FLOP *** [T◊ 2♡ 6♡]
Hero: Bet $5.00
Villain 2: Raise $10.00
Hero: Raise $20.00
Villain 2: Call $15.00
$56 in pot, $112 effective stacks behind.
*** TURN *** [6♠]
Hero: Bet $40.00
Villain 2: Call $40.00
$136 in pot, $72 effective stacks behind.
*** RIVER *** [J◊]
Hero: ??
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Hand Analysis
Date: 2007-12-11 01:38 pm (UTC)Hand 1 -
In an aggressive game where people will raise or float with nothing, dont bother trying to win these pots. Your bet out represents a certain range, and your actual hand is at the bottom of that range and cant with stand any action. On ipoker where you are playing passive morons betting is fine as its profitable, if you have the best hand everyone will fold, or they may call with a draw. On full tilt the players love making plays and will see you bet as weakness. You should bet out here in that type of game with a good draw which you can 3 bet with, nothing which you can fold or 3 bet with, or trips good kicker/ house and you can try and use the players aggression against them.
Hand 2 A non diamond turn would be much better to continue on. A good player will realise that a bet on a diamond turn is much more likely to be a bluff as most real hand would be happy to check behind and see the river. If I bet the turn I would probably push the river, He cant call with out a flush and he may even fold a set. His bet looks like a blocking bet.
Hand 3 You should raise much more pre-flop, something closer to pot. On the flop I think you should bet. If he has a hand like 99 or 88 he may fold to a flop bet, and in fact put no money into the pot unless he hits his two outer (as he will assume you have a king at best). A guy with KQ here will not fold having called a reraise preflop. Simply there is no need to get tricky here, the pot is quite big and needs protecting. In terms of meta game you need to be able to bet here with nothing, so checking when you have something is bad.
Hand 4
The way you got to the river you have to call, the price is too good and he can be value betting worse. The more hands a player plays preflop the harder narrowing his range becomes, I wouldn't bother putting him on a specific holding. His bets are so small that its fine to pay him off if he has a better hand than you. He hasnt made up for his loss of equity pre-flop.
Its very bad to call the turn and then fold to the river for pretty much the same bet. Aggressive bad players tend to keep betting if you give them rope.
Hand 5
Again your raise is too little, I think almost a pot raise is much better. On the river there is no choice you have to push, the pot is too big to do anything else. If you check he will probably check behind when you are ahead, but if you are behind he will bet, and you are forced to call this because of the size of the pot. I think harringon called this a negative freeroll. Anyway I think you made mistakes on earlier streets in terms of bet sizing to leave yourself with an awkward amount now. A bigger flop raise means you could just set yourself in on the turn.
Re: Hand Analysis
Date: 2007-12-11 03:20 pm (UTC)Hand 1 ... I would only bet out with a 7 here and enjoy watching them try to get me off it. You have to bet top pair? Since when? This isn't Limit, baby.
Hand 2 ... Yeah it sucks but TT no good when they can call on a AJx flop. Agree that continuing on the diamond turn not great - particularly as you do have Td which means a river diamond might be a suckout. I'd have resorted to your normal Plan A here. Also not sure why you're so vehemently against limping TT UTG ... seems reasonable ... as does raising. There's nothing wrong with limping UTG sometimes.
Hand 3 ... Just abandon min-raises completely. Raise the pot as H suggests or at least triple their raise. You're still psychologically frightened of raising (yes you are) and so you make raises smaller and therefore less offensive. There's no doubt some deeply clever strategic reason why you checked behind on the flop but this guy is a donkey - he's aleady called the re-raise with KQ - and just bet it. You didn't "sucker him in" - absolutely no finesse was needed.
Hand 4 ... This was bad. You have to call river given the way it was played - but you played it badly. Don't call check-raises (unless you're trapping). Why not make it $40 on the flop and if he shoves you're probably beaten. I would only call there with AA.
Hand 5 ... I might go passive on this one and just call flop and check-call turn and river since you can beat hands he might be "value-betting" like JJ/QQ/AT.
matt
Re: Hand Analysis
Date: 2007-12-11 03:33 pm (UTC)On hand 4, yes, making it $40 on flop is definitely better.
Hand 3: This is actually something as simple as software and time. The raise I type into the machine seems big to me, but on later analysis, it isn't. I thought that I was making it $32.50 in total. (3.5 + 9 + 20). Turns out I was making it $23.50 in total ($3.50 + $20). I mean, if I said "raise $20", in that situation, in a live game, it would have been $32.50 in total from me, wouldn't it?
Hand 1: Just that, looking at my stats, betting out top pair had been profitable. If it isn't so on FTP, then checking is probably best.
Hand 5:
Just out of curiosity, Matt, why the difference on Hand 5 from Hand 4, because surely opponent might be value-betting hands that I can beat on hand 4 as well (As Hector said, I might be beating hands for value)? One is TPTK and one is an overpair, but, apart from that, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of difference between the situations. What am I missing?
In reply to Hector on his Hand 5 comment. Once again, I can't work out those maths fast enough at the moment. I got myself into a bit of a spot that was unnecessary.
PJ
Re: Hand Analysis
Date: 2007-12-12 10:08 am (UTC)Hand 4 you've opened from early position and only been called from the big blind. His range here is enormous but he's chosen to check-raise you on an A48 rainbow flop. This represents a monster or at least a hand better than your AQ. There's no reasonable draw out there so I think his hand range is AA, 88, 44, AK, A8, A4, Ax, pair/air. It's a tough spot but we can conclude that if you're behind then your chances of sucking out are slim to none. Furthermore you are not going to make a better hand fold by raising. The bright spot is that worse hands will have to fold if you raise now.
How you play this is very opponent and read dependent. I don't like calling unless you're willing to call all the way and your read is that an aggressive bluffer will keep hammering away at his worse ace. I can't see that line being profitable in general. Folding on the flop is not unreasonable against a very tight player. I'd probably say (type) something like "QQ no good?" and you'd be amazed at how often they will show you an ace etc. If the opponent is aggressive and tricky and you think they'd slowplay a set then the chance of a bluff is much higher and a raise is the correct play.
Hand 5 you've again raised from EP and been called two spots later. That indicates some strength - medium pair perhaps, or perhaps AXs. The raise to your flop bet doesn't look like huge strength to me. A set is just going to call and let you bet turn and river before raising. Raising for a free card with a flush draw? It's possible but by far the most likely scenario is a pair 88/99/JJ/QQ which is testing the waters. In this case you're either way ahead/way behind and out of position so keeping the pot small isn't a bad idea. A reraise on the flop certainly isnt wrong but as I said I might try just calling. If a blank turns and they check behind I will try to make my river bet look like desperation from AK.
matt
Re: Hand Analysis
Date: 2007-12-12 11:17 am (UTC)Cheers, but WHY is you so rude as to put my back up the second you write a sentence? I'm sure that you aren't like that in real life.
In the previous post,it's the prase "This ain't limit, babe".
Babe?
Jeez.
And in this one it's the arrogant "I can't see anything similar about them at all".
Hell, I can be arrogant along with the best of them, but please. How can you write that, and yet, in paragraph 3, use the word "again"? If you use the word "again", then you imply repetition. If you imply repetition, you imply similarity. And yet in the opening sentence you state that you can't see any simi9larity. What's your motive in writing that opening sentence, in any case? It adds nothing to the following three paragraphs and detracts a lot.
It's annoying, because you really do come up with some useful stuff such as my raising levels being smaller than they should be, and the probable cause of this flaw (and paragprahs 2 to 4 here are very helpful)
So, here's what I saw as the similarities:
a) I raised.
b) I was cold-called.
c) I flopped a hand that was likely to be way ahead way behind (although, as you say, in the second case, there is also the chance that it's a raise to get a free card).
How can you not see these?
You can say that these similarities are less important than the differences, but I just don't see how you can't see them at all, particularly when you use the word "again" in your description of the hand. Why, therefore, did you write what you did in the opening sentence? What's your motive? You just detract from all of the vry helpful things that you have to say, because people will automatically be antagonistic to your writing from the word go.
PJ
Re: Hand Analysis
Date: 2007-12-12 12:56 pm (UTC)I'm probably using very different mental filters to characterise situations to you, so what seems similar to you seems very different to me. That doesn't of course mean we can't come to the same conclusions about a hand.
I've looked at hands 4 and 5 again and tried to work out why they seem so different. I think it comes down to position. In a heads-up situation I could never think of two spots with and without position as being similar. It's like a chess position ... a master recalling a past game may make mistakes about move order or irrelevant piece placing but they'd never forget whether they were black or white. Post-flop the ideas of "If I'm ahead can I stack him", "If I'm behind will I get stacked" are very predominant in my thinking. Other thoughts are "What does he put me on and is his play therefore more likely to be a bluff or a value bet" and "Should this hand be resolved on the flop or can a decision be postponed?".
Your filters seem to be primarily extrinsic. In other words an observer could note the action and characterise the hands as similar by the criteria you give. Mine are primarily intrinsic ... you would really need to know my cards to be able to say whethere I would regard the situations as similar.
matt
Re: Hand Analysis
Date: 2007-12-11 03:41 pm (UTC)Particularly like the comments on Hand 2. I agree that his bet on the river looks like a blocking bet. A push probably has positive EV.
I bet the turn because I got fed up with always being called on the flop. A bad attitude. But, quite a cheap lesson learnt.
PJ
Re: Hand Analysis
Date: 2007-12-11 09:05 pm (UTC)As you say, Hector, pushing is the only option. I really must work more on my bet-sizing so that I don't get into these negative freeroll situations (in fact, I got lucky in that opponent called with a losing hand).
GAME #753878357: Texas Hold'em NL $0.50/$1.00 10-Dec-2007 16:05:51
Table TURBO Swayzee
Seat 1: Villain 2 ($191.35 in chips)
Seat 2: AesculanusM ($37.40 in chips)
Seat 4: RayLi ($15.50 in chips) DEALER
Seat 5: Gialu ($26.95 in chips)
Seat 6: Mr198546 ($40.65 in chips)
Seat 9: Hero ($140.10 in chips)
Seat 10: Tofsen1 ($114.90 in chips)
Gialu: Post SB $0.50
Mr198546: Post BB $1.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Villain 2 [Ts Jh]
Dealt to Hero [Ks Kd]
Hero: Raise $3.00
Tofsen1: Fold
Villain 2: Call $3.00
AesculanusM: Fold
RayLi: Fold
Gialu: Fold
Mr198546: Fold
*** FLOP *** [Td 2h 6h]
Hero: Bet $5.00
Villain 2: Raise $10.00
Hero: Raise $20.00
Villain 2: Call $15.00
*** TURN *** [6s]
Hero: Bet $40.00
Villain 2: Call $40.00
*** RIVER *** [Jd]
Hero: Bet $72.10
Villain 2: Call $72.10
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $278.70 Rake $3.00
Hero: wins $278.70
Re: Hand Analysis
Date: 2007-12-12 11:24 am (UTC)Just as an aside, in that hand I probably wouldn't limp in behind you in that position with AX hearts, but if I did I would be raising you on that flop, probably tripling your bet. The reason (on the sites I play) being that I get a fold often enough (for instance when opponent has JT), to make it profitable, particularly as there are players who will then call and pay off a flush big time, usually with a lot of noisy complaint, which is always satisfying. What I really hate to see in that situation is you reraising/shoving, and if you do it to me once then I put my aggression back in the box for a while. So I agree that a bigger raise on the flop puts you in a much more comfortable situation all around.