A Hand

[peterbirks]

When you play 18,000 or so hands a month, most things that crop up at the table are not new. But the multi-wayers with main pots and side pots against loose players are still unusual situations for me, simply because I don't often play when these nutters are around. This one turned out okay, but I could have played it differently at any number of points.

$0.5/$1 Blinds No Limit Hold'em

Late Saturday Night, Pacific Poker

Seat 5 is the button

Total number of players : 9

Seat 10: cau2gz07 ( $27.65 )
Seat 1: MrNOmrcy ( $98 )
Seat 2: ClaytonT ( $86.5 )
Seat 3: manjarin ( $92.5 )
Seat 4: 64mic ( $269.38 )
Seat 5: RedfernH ( $77.81 )
Seat 6: 777rob ( $104.59 )
Seat 7: notfor ( $84.85 )
Seat 8: Hero ( $152.94 )

777rob posts small blind [$0.5].
notfor posts big blind [$1].

** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to Hero [ Q♠ Q♡; ]

Hero raises [$3].

I've adopted a standard $3 raise as default, sometimes even with limpers. It's mainly because I'm more confident now about my post-flop play. If you let players think that they are getting implied odds, then you have to be able to get away from at least some of the hands when they hit, while calling down others when they pretend that they have hit, but they haven't.

cau2gz07 raises [$5].

This is a worrying raise from a short stack who is not at all loose. Indeed, during the day on the IP Network, you'd expect this to be Aces at least half the time. But late on Saturday night? Maybe a bweer too many. Maybe getting a bit frisky

MrNOmrcy folds.
ClaytonT folds.
manjarin folds.
64mic calls [$5]

Not a very worrying call. This guy is loose passive and has bundles of chips. Could be anything.
.
RedfernH raises [$27.65].

I grant this man's raises no credibility whatsoever. I am way ahead of his range.

777rob folds.
notfor folds.

So, how much to reraise? Pacific is a bastard site for this, and more than once I've actually folded while I've been trying to type in a number for my raise. The default of double Redfern's bet seems as good as any to me. So I press that button.

Hero raises [$47.3].
cau2gz07 calls [$22.65].

Now that he's called, I'm trying to factor in this guy having Aces, meaning that I might be focusing in on the side pot.

64mic calls [$45.3]

Narrows this guy's range somewhat. But, hell, maybe he just fancies a gamble.
.
RedfernH calls [$22.65].

This guy was always calling.

** Dealing Flop ** [ 6♣;, K♠, 2♡; ]

Ugh. I can't see how a bet out here helps me. The all-in guy works as some protection against a bluff from opponents with cash left.

Hero checks.
64mic checks.
RedfernH checks.

Now there's hope.

** Dealing Turn ** [ 8♣; ]

How much to bet here? I'm in alien territory. I decide to try for two-thirds of the sidepot


Hero bets [$40].
64mic folds.
RedfernH calls [$27.51].


** Dealing River ** [ K◊; ]

** Summary **

cau2gz07 shows [ K♡; Q♣; ].

RedfernH shows [ 4♣; 4◊; ].

Hero shows [ Q♠ Q♡; ].

cau2gz07 collected [$108.1].

Hero collected [$122.97].


For a net plus $45 on the hand or therabouts.



_______________________

Sunday morning, late at night US time.

PokerStars Game Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/08/03 -

Seat #3 is the button

Seat 1: westie44 ($143.75 in chips)
Seat 2: roy_johnson ($77.65 in chips)
Seat 3: Sarp Ovutmen ($18.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Hero ($99 in chips)
Seat 5: Stannka ($21.50 in chips)
Seat 6: Jordy_JP ($98.25 in chips)
Seat 7: Bulo4ka ($18.50 in chips)
Seat 8: JimBart82 ($159.35 in chips)
Seat 9: Koldan ($20 in chips)
Hero: posts small blind $0.50
Stannka: posts big blind $1

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to Hero [Q♡; Q♠]

Ahh, the old favourite. QQ in the small blind.

Jordy_JP: folds
Bulo4ka: folds
JimBart82: folds
Koldan: folds
JimBart82 leaves the table
westie44: raises $3 to $4

No real stats on this bloke, but he's got a decent stack.

roy_johnson: folds
Sarp Ovutmen: folds
Hero: raises $12 to $16

Means opponent has to put in $12 to win my $100. In other words, he is not getting implied odds. Because I have raised this much, I cannot fold to a potential set.

Stannka: folds
westie44: calls $12

*** FLOP *** [3♠ 9♣; 4◊;]

Hero: bets $10

Since I'm committed to a potential set, I'm happy to now think opponent is getting implied odds with overcards. I'm prepared to eliminbate AA and KK from opponent's range, although this holding with this play is not unheard of. It's just very rare late at night.


westie44: calls $10

My favourite for opponent is still AK, maybe AJs, JJ, TT or even a smaller pair. He might have a set, but if that's the case, so it goes.Calling a $12 raise means that he made his mistake preflop. I plan to impersonate AK here on the turn if a brick falls.

*** TURN *** [3♠ 9♣; 4◊;] [7♠]

Hero: checks
westie44: bets $10

Hero: raises $63 to $73 and is all-in

westie44: calls $63

*** RIVER *** [3♠ 9♣; 4◊; 7♠] [6♠]
*** SHOW DOWN ***

Hero: shows [Q♡; Q♠] (a pair of Queens)
westie44: shows [9◊; 9♡;] (three of a kind, Nines)
westie44 collected $196 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $199 | Rake $3
Board [3♠ 9♣; 4◊; 7♠ 6♠]
Seat 1: westie44 showed [9◊; 9♡;] and won ($196) with three of a kind, Nines
Seat 4: Hero (small blind) showed [Q♡; Q♠] and lost with a pair of Queens

So it goes. Thre's an argument for a bigger bet on the flop, and I admit that my play does attract volatility.


+++++++++++++

IQ Network, Sunday Lunch. Bit of a NitFest.

Texas Hold'em NL $0.50/$1 03-Aug-20080

Seat 1: kerkhoven07 ($100.00 in chips)
Seat 2: pokerbeee ($48.00 in chips)
Seat 3: liujia ($19.00 in chips)
Seat 4: IMPRE3A ($109.75 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero ($124.05 in chips)
Seat 7: Play3r1337 ($23.00 in chips)
Seat 8: ChrilleA ($59.00 in chips) DEALER
Seat 9: hupenolaf ($99.00 in chips)
Seat 10: MMeiSun ($126.50 in chips)

hupenolaf: Post SB $0.50
MMeiSun: Post BB $1.00

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to Hero [A♠ A♣;]
kerkhoven07: Fold
pokerbeee: Fold
liujia: Fold
IMPRE3A: Fold
Hero: Raise (NF) $3.00
Play3r1337: Fold
ChrilleA: Fold
hupenolaf: Fold
MMeiSun: Call $2.00

*** FLOP *** [9◊; 3♡; 5♠]

MMeiSun: Check
Hero: Bet $3.00
MMeiSun: Raise (to) $7.75

Because it's a rag flop, opponent's check-raise range is considerably wider than on a flop of, say, KT6 rainbow. It's standard with an overpair and common with any pair at all.

Hero: Call $4.75

*** TURN *** [T♠]

MMeiSun: Bet $14.00
Hero: Call $14.00

Since a bet from the check-raiser is almost mandatory here, this doesn't narrow his range much. Maybe the smaller pairs would shut up here about half the time. But TT to QQ is still betting. I've discounted KK because these players reraise with KK preflop.


*** RIVER *** [7♡;]

MMeiSun: Check

Players at this level aren't good enough to trap here. He's now worried that his over pair isn't good. The question for me now is, how much to bet? There's $50 in the pot. I'm really just trying to bet the maximum that he will call. If I get check-raised here, I guess I'm pot-committed, but I can't see this guy either trapping or check-raise-bluffing here.

Hero: Bet $20.00
MMeiSun: Call $20.00

*** SUMMARY ***

MMeiSun: Shows [J◊; J♡;]

Hero: wins $87.00

Now that I klnow that he will call $20, I'm cursing myself for not betting $30. That's the problem with these situations. You bet the max you think he will call. If he folds you curse yourself for betting too much, and if he calls you curse yourself for betting too little!



++++++++++++++++++++

The main point about these two hands is that in the first I am deliberately denying opponent any implied odds. If I flop an overpair, I'm going to the end. In the second case, I am giving opponent implied odds, so I have to use my judgement on when I need to get away from my Aces and when to stay.

Comments

A a hand or three.

[(Anonymous)]

Hi Pete,

In the first queens hand I'm curious about the river action, were you thinking about check/folding after your turn bet got a call? I like the way you played it up to the river, maybe you thought the loose player could have any random (rubbish) king that he was unprepared to raise but would obviously call with if you bet again.

I really like the way you played the second one, I think if the other player is aggressive enough you'll probably get a raise on the flop with worse fairly often.

The last hand is the only one that I don't like. The turn is debatable, maybe if he's super tight there's no value in a raise but in the games I'm playing at the moment I couldn't give him credit for a set after check raising this particular board. On that flop there aren't too many playable two-pair hands (that want to call a raise) so I'd say his range is weighted towards one pair hands which you're still ahead of on the turn, but he's still betting out. If you think he's got a slow played overpair often or a good nine I think a raise is certainly in order, when you just call he's going to realise something is up - you can't have AK every time can you?!

As played on the river this is a prime candidate for at least a pot sized bet in my opinion. If he was bluffing or on some weird draw that missed he's not biting anyway, especially not when your bet size screams please call me. If he does have a decent made hand (or a set against which you're calling a check-raise anyway) you might as well go ahead and bet an amount where you could be bluffing. When he checks the river he'll be forced to look you up with pretty much any legitimate hand he got this far with I think. Maybe I'm slightly biased because I can see he had the jacks, but any time you find a spot where you're going to have to call a raise that is much bigger than the size you'd choose to value bet, I think you've got a good candidate for an easy leak to plug.

Mattito.

Re: A a hand or three.

[peterbirks.livejournal.com]

Hi Mattito:

On the third hand, I accept your final point. I suspect that you are giving opponent a little bit too much credit when you say "when you just call he's going to realise something is up - you can't have AK every time can you". It's only $100 buy-in.

I've also seen some ridiculously small "bluff" bets on the river at this level. ("you might as well go ahead and bet an amount where you could be bluffing").

And I was also slightly influenced by the erroneous line of "there is no scenario where he can check-raise here". As we well know, the unexpected can jump up and bite you rather more often than you think.

So, ignorning the benefit of hindsight (we now know hehad jacks, we now know he will call $20), I think that your key point here is the general one of "if you are pot-committed to call a check-raise, you might as well bet at least half that amount as your value-bet". I really like this line of thought because it's clean, simple, makes mathematical sense, and doesn't rely on the "but this is what opponent will do" concept.

That said, if I'm intending to FOLD to a check-raise, the argument works in the opposite direction. Bet a small enough amount that you can get away from a check-raise all-in.

And, in GOOD games ($400 buy-in and above?) you need to disguise those amounts sufficiently so that opponent can't suss out what you are doing.

__________

Queens response in second post.

Re: A a hand or three.

[peterbirks.livejournal.com]

In the QQ first hand, there is no river action. The big stack folded and Redfern was all in on the turn.

If the small stack folds and the big stack calls, I have $70 left with $108 in the main pot and $122 in the side pot. I'm going to assume that a pair of Kings or better is calling me and less than a pair of nines is folding. If I check, I might snap off a bluff. If I check, a single pair of kings will probably check behind, but a pair of nines might bet on the grounds that it might push TT-JJ-QQ (and my betting could easily represent all three) off. And what kind of hand could he be bluffing with against two all-ins?

And he's called the $40 on the turn. I think he's going all the way.

I think I bet here and go for the call if the big stack stays in.

PJ