The difficulties of multi-wayers
Sep. 9th, 2008 01:17 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
peterbirksGiven the times of day that I play and the sites on which I choose to play, I have to be careful to adjust to different styles on other sites at other times. This hand cropped up on Pacific last night and raised an interesting theoretical point to which I am not sure of the answer. The numbers are from memory, but the principle is the same.
SB: $30
BB: $50
UTG: $80 (48/9)
MP1: $40 (35/3)
MP2: $110 (29/2)
Hero: $100
MP4: $30 (66/5)
HJ: $110 (17/0)
CO: $90 (60/20)
BTN: $40 (33/10)
Dealt to hero: As Qh
SB posts 50c, BB posts $1.
UTG limps, MP1 limps, MP2 limps.
The first decision. Fold, call, or raise, and, if raise, how much?
I chose to raise to $7, mainly because that's an amount that tends to get rid of the speculative loose callers who have position on you. And although I think that AQo is probably winning, I don't really fancy it as a multi-wayer. I half-thought about raising to $6. If I raise to $5 I'm going to get loose callers and I've increased the size of the pot when OOP on the flop. I think that calling with AQo is better than a raise of $3 to $5 in this kind of game. Then you can let the hand go reltively cheaply if things go wrong, or have a go at controlling the pot size if things go semi-right. BTW, if the $7 is raised I think I'm chucking it away unless I'm getting huge odds (say, a mini-raise behind me and called round by thee players).
Loose player MP4 calls. This sets off the sequence of call from the Hi-Jack, fold from CO and button, fold from the blinds and calls from the two previous limpers.
Whoops.
So, here's the problem that I don't come up against in ordinary games that are usually heads up pre-flop. I already have a nigh-on $40 pot, with only $93 left in front of me. In effect, it's a short-stack game already and any thoughts of pot control are out of the window. Either I commit or I fold.
Flop comes semi-good, Qs 7s 2h There is $37 in the pot.
Checked to me. How much do I bet?
On the grounds that this is a fairly dry board, I decide, perhaps wrongly, to hit a roughly half-pot bet. This would be how much I would bet if it was a $8 pot and there were just two opponents. But is TPTK really strong enough to CB with a bet that effectively commits me?
I bet $19. Hi-Jack calls. All others fold. There's now $75 in the pot and I have $74 left. Opponent is the one tight player in the field, so I'm not happy about this. But his range includes many hands I could be beating. My action on the turn will be card-dependent.
Turn comes 6s, giving me a flush draw as well as TPTK. Of course, it might also give opponent the made flush.
Me to act first.
I go all-in, which is equal to a pot size bet. I reckon that this at least gives opponent a difficult decision (unless he's got the flush).
I have already got the feeling that I've gone wrong somewhere in this hand, but I can't quite put my finger on where. For a start, my flop bet seems based on one premise (that opponent might be on a draw) while my turn bet seems based on another (that he isn't). But that doesn't give me the answer on where I should take a different decision. Just throwing the AQ away preflop seems pathetic. Calling rather than raising also seems rather wimpish when it's quite possible that I'll get one caller on whom I have position. And I think that raising a small amount is worse than any of the other three choices.
I'd be interested on the views of others. before my next post, I'll tell you whether opponent folded or called.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
(EDIT) How-it-turned-out is at the bottom, as a reply to one of my own comments.
SB: $30
BB: $50
UTG: $80 (48/9)
MP1: $40 (35/3)
MP2: $110 (29/2)
Hero: $100
MP4: $30 (66/5)
HJ: $110 (17/0)
CO: $90 (60/20)
BTN: $40 (33/10)
Dealt to hero: As Qh
SB posts 50c, BB posts $1.
UTG limps, MP1 limps, MP2 limps.
The first decision. Fold, call, or raise, and, if raise, how much?
I chose to raise to $7, mainly because that's an amount that tends to get rid of the speculative loose callers who have position on you. And although I think that AQo is probably winning, I don't really fancy it as a multi-wayer. I half-thought about raising to $6. If I raise to $5 I'm going to get loose callers and I've increased the size of the pot when OOP on the flop. I think that calling with AQo is better than a raise of $3 to $5 in this kind of game. Then you can let the hand go reltively cheaply if things go wrong, or have a go at controlling the pot size if things go semi-right. BTW, if the $7 is raised I think I'm chucking it away unless I'm getting huge odds (say, a mini-raise behind me and called round by thee players).
Loose player MP4 calls. This sets off the sequence of call from the Hi-Jack, fold from CO and button, fold from the blinds and calls from the two previous limpers.
Whoops.
So, here's the problem that I don't come up against in ordinary games that are usually heads up pre-flop. I already have a nigh-on $40 pot, with only $93 left in front of me. In effect, it's a short-stack game already and any thoughts of pot control are out of the window. Either I commit or I fold.
Flop comes semi-good, Qs 7s 2h There is $37 in the pot.
Checked to me. How much do I bet?
On the grounds that this is a fairly dry board, I decide, perhaps wrongly, to hit a roughly half-pot bet. This would be how much I would bet if it was a $8 pot and there were just two opponents. But is TPTK really strong enough to CB with a bet that effectively commits me?
I bet $19. Hi-Jack calls. All others fold. There's now $75 in the pot and I have $74 left. Opponent is the one tight player in the field, so I'm not happy about this. But his range includes many hands I could be beating. My action on the turn will be card-dependent.
Turn comes 6s, giving me a flush draw as well as TPTK. Of course, it might also give opponent the made flush.
Me to act first.
I go all-in, which is equal to a pot size bet. I reckon that this at least gives opponent a difficult decision (unless he's got the flush).
I have already got the feeling that I've gone wrong somewhere in this hand, but I can't quite put my finger on where. For a start, my flop bet seems based on one premise (that opponent might be on a draw) while my turn bet seems based on another (that he isn't). But that doesn't give me the answer on where I should take a different decision. Just throwing the AQ away preflop seems pathetic. Calling rather than raising also seems rather wimpish when it's quite possible that I'll get one caller on whom I have position. And I think that raising a small amount is worse than any of the other three choices.
I'd be interested on the views of others. before my next post, I'll tell you whether opponent folded or called.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
(EDIT) How-it-turned-out is at the bottom, as a reply to one of my own comments.
