No Limit, cont'd
Nov. 1st, 2005 07:34 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
peterbirksOK: General consensus is for a pot raise, with one argument for a limp-reraise.
As it happens, the pot raise is right, but no-one spotted why (including me, when I was playing, which goes to show that you should always pay attention). My own line of thought that I was likely to get action for something slightly larger than a pot raise. I'm looking to double through here, and a "mere" pot raise is more likely to win me about 500.
So I raised it to 320. This was a mistake. As Sklansky might say, "can you see why?"
This went round to CO1, who promptly went all-in for 440. This got round to the small blind, who called. All others folded, and it came back to me.
Shit. I thought. If this was Prima, I know that I would be able to raise again. Are the rules the same on UB?
Unfortunately not. Because CO's raise was an underraise, I could only call.
Still, possibly no harm done. As long as an Ace doesn't come on the flop.
Pot size: 1410. I have 1120 in front of me.
The flop comes 986 two clubs.
Small blind bets 400.
What do I do?
As it happens, the pot raise is right, but no-one spotted why (including me, when I was playing, which goes to show that you should always pay attention). My own line of thought that I was likely to get action for something slightly larger than a pot raise. I'm looking to double through here, and a "mere" pot raise is more likely to win me about 500.
So I raised it to 320. This was a mistake. As Sklansky might say, "can you see why?"
This went round to CO1, who promptly went all-in for 440. This got round to the small blind, who called. All others folded, and it came back to me.
Shit. I thought. If this was Prima, I know that I would be able to raise again. Are the rules the same on UB?
Unfortunately not. Because CO's raise was an underraise, I could only call.
Still, possibly no harm done. As long as an Ace doesn't come on the flop.
Pot size: 1410. I have 1120 in front of me.
The flop comes 986 two clubs.
Small blind bets 400.
What do I do?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
Shove it
Date: 2005-11-01 07:12 pm (UTC)In retrospect, I think this was an error, despite the (gratifying) support from the correspondents.
SB played the same trick on me that I have played on many opponents. He knows that I am likely to call a 400 bet with AK or overcards, and to reraise with a big pair. Given the size of his stack, he can afford to bet bigger than 400 if he is really taking a stab at what is a reasonably sized pot. I think that, with hands I could beat, he would have bet as much as I had in front of me.
But, I fell for the trap, possibly because I was tired.
He flipped 99 and I was walking.
But the big mistake was raising 320 pre-flop. If I raise 200, and short stack goes all-in, then, assuming SB calls, I can reraise all-in. If he calls, well, I still get knocked out, but the EV is enormous. If he folds, the EV is slightly lower, but I have a nice stack of chips to play with.
PJ
Re: Shove it
Date: 2005-11-01 10:18 pm (UTC)Of course it's better to raise less pre-flop when you're not following up so much. But easing off when you miss means the pots you lose are smaller. I also don't give opponents much credit for observing me carefully (and in bigger games than $5 !) but if someone does decide to come after you this dovetails nicely with the way I often just call a raise pre-flop with a big hand in position.
Andy.
Re: Shove it
Date: 2005-11-02 11:22 am (UTC)Pete was holding KcKh, not overcards.
Dan.
Re: Shove it
Date: 2005-11-02 03:54 pm (UTC)Andy was replying to my point that the bettor would expect a flat call with overcards, not my actual holding.
Actually, Andy makes a good point, even though he does not say what I should do here. I don't think that there is "no escape". The point really is, what's the best way to find the escape route.
I said that the bettor could be read as having a good hand because with a hand where he wanted me to fold, he would bet bigger. I think that this point still holds, given the size of his stack at the time. The "he would expect a call with overcards" is perhaps a bit of a red herring. When that 400 goes in, he's praying that I have a big pair and that I will raise him all-in.
Which, like a cunt, I promptly did.
Speaking of wihch and apropos your post Andy -- if we can assume that Harrington's book is going to be read by all players at a certain level and above, then I suspect many nights thinking in dark rooms are required to elicit the rock-paper-scissors implications of this for tournament play. I suspect that your decision not to put in continuation bets as often is one (biggish) step along this long journey.
And now, if you will forgive me, I have had a bit of a shitty day, and I want to throw things at walls.
PJ
Re: Shove it
Date: 2005-11-02 04:51 pm (UTC)As for the counter-strategising, you read my mind ! I shall be posting on this topic soon.
Andy.